I have always had problems understanding why Hell is real and forever. How could the good God be so stern with individuals He created out of nothing? For many years, I felt confident that God, being merciful, would forgive Lucifer if the devil sincerely repented and that God would do the same with all angels and humans who wound up in Hell.
Late in my life, when I was 87, I started writing articles for Catholic Stand. I had the benefit of dialogue with many editors and writers who were well trained in the Catholic faith and theology. On this matter in particular – the permanence of Hell – I learned that I was mistaken. There is no forgiveness for anyone consigned to Hell because God already knows that everyone who chooses Hell will never repent.
It is surprising what that enlightenment did to my understanding of the Catholic faith. I was familiar with the term paradigm shift before, but now I had a full-fledged experience of revising my total understanding of the Catholic faith to something much more orthodox.
How did I do it? First of all, I realized that if the Catholic Church taught an issue, her teaching is true, and if my understanding was different, I was the one who was wrong. God is still merciful. I was correct about that, but there are other reasons why Hell is real and forever. But it took a lot of thought to correct my misunderstanding, which I believe is very common even among Catholics.
A Simple but Effective Image
Let’s start at the beginning. The Church has been compared to a boat sailing through the world bringing its passengers safely into heaven. Years ago, I remember seeing a holy card of one of the dreams of St. John Bosco showing a boat being piloted by the pope who is carefully trying to sail it through two pillars (Dream).
I understand how a sailing boat works and that understanding helped me to realize why it is true that God will never relent the punishment of someone deserving of Hell. If the Church can be compared to a boat, human sinfulness is like the keel of the boat containing ballast. The keel must weigh a certain amount for the boat to be stable in the water. If it weighs too much the boat will sink. If it weighs too little the boat will be blown over by the slightest wind.
And while it is true that the Church has the promise of the Holy Spirit and will never “sink” (as a metaphor for ultimate destruction), it is also true that human sinfulness weighs the Church down and encumbers her mission. Somehow God brings good out of that negative weight by using it as a balance (see Romans 5:20 and 8:28). And I believe that at the end of time all that weight will drop to the bottom of the ocean, or as the Book of Revelation calls it, the abyss. That will be eternal Hell.
God wants His Church to remain afloat during this present life so that as many as possible might be saved. But those who wind up in Hell are still part of God’s creation, both human and angel. God wishes none of them to be lost (1 Timothy 2:4).
Yet, the ones who have gone and who will go to Hell were warned many times to take God seriously and to love Him and obey Him as He commands. They wound up in Hell not because they were superfluous, but because they steadfastly refused to honor God and obey Him. They wound up in Hell because of their own free choice to defy God just as the righteous wound up in Heaven because of their own free choice to love God and obey Him as He commanded.
The image of the boat shows that God’s creation is a complete community of humans and angels, every one of whom was gifted with free will and every one of whom was given sufficient time to display how they would respond to the God who created them – humans for the short decades they spent in this life, angels for the eons they spent since the beginning of creation.
To understand this better, let’s look at the case against Lucifer.
The Deadly Sins of Pride and Jealousy
We have already been told that pride is the major sin that gets most of the wicked confined to Hell. Lucifer was jealous that God appointed Jesus, a human, to be the incarnation of God. Lucifer, probably thought that God should have chosen an angel – one like Lucifer himself, no doubt – to be the manifestation of God within a created person.
Pride, once it had taken hold of Lucifer because of his elevated nature, was not frivolously considered. Lucifer thought about his reaction sufficiently enough that, once having made a decision, would never change it. When God showed him a vision of the Word Made Flesh and announced: “This is my beloved Son, listen to him,” the evil one’s envy and pride doomed him, as the Book of Isaiah noted centuries before Christ:
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’ But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.’ (Isaiah 14:13-14 NKJV)
Lucifer’s Three Attacks on the Church
The Church has been crippled by Lucifer and his brood of devils temping humans to disobey God. Lucifer’s first of three major attacks against the Church was to inspire humans to protest the way God directs His Church. This attack spawned many heresies as well as the Protestant movement where human opinion now guides their churches. The new churches initially protested the Catholic Church’s handling of indulgences and then went on to issue more critical doctrinal protests which shattered the unity of the Church.
The second attack of Lucifer was the atheistic movement that grew into the Communist Empire, which seriously weakened the Church already damaged by the Reformation. This is well described in the apparition of Fatima. Communism is still in the world today, and it shows very little signs of disappearing from the face of the earth.
Lucifer’s third, current, and perhaps most deadly attack is the inspiration that gave birth to the Theory of Evolution, which today intends to depose God from His position as Creator. If all life forms simply evolved, what role does God play in human affairs? This is the most pernicious attack of Lucifer. It really has potential to damage people’s understanding of God as Creator. Humans presume to know better than God how life originated. This appeals to their pride, the deadliest of sins.
The Price of Conferring Free Will
One has to view the entire creation to visualize what God had in mind when He created the Church. Creation contains billions of human beings (some say as many as eighty billion throughout all of history) and many angels, every one of whom is immortal. But God made humans and angels in His own image, as free and sovereign persons. Nothing compels God to do anything other than His own interior perfection.
Humans, on the other hand, need an outside stimulus to obey (because they are not divine persons). This stimulus would be God’s commandments that are a sure guide to perfection. Since humans are gifted with free will, they need divine guidance to choose correctly. If they choose incorrectly and refuse to obey God, chaos enters into creation.
And here is the real mystery. When God created humans, He decided to create even those He knew would never obey Him. They are the down side of human freedom. Many will obey and avoid sins like murder, theft, false witness, greed, gluttony and all the other moral infractions that offend God. They will choose God and be rewarded in Heaven. But some will refuse to obey and will be punished in Hell.
Conclusion
I speculated on the image of the Church which showed all humans and all angels as passengers on a boat sailing the waters of creation. All of them are gifted with sovereign free natures. They have free will, but since they have been created out of nothing they are not as free as God is; they must obey God in all things to avoid chaos spreading through creation.
Those who choose to obey will pass into the kingdom of Heaven where never a tear is shed and live in uttermost peace and happiness with the God who created them. Those who choose not to obey will pass into a place of damnation where they chose death by their defiance of God and must endure pain and hardship forever.
This place of damnation is not destructive as we normally understand that term. The fires of hell are not consuming flames like material fire. It is rather the moral and spiritual fire of disobedience. Humans who reject God will be submerged in the flames of Hell for billions of uncountable millennia (a metaphor for eternity) without damage to their resurrected bodies like material fire would do to a material body. They will only experience pain, a kind of existential pain of separation and disobedience. Even though they are punished, they are not thrown away as useless. They provide a counter-balance for free will and remain an important part of overall creation.
God revealed at the beginning of creation that Heaven is for those who love and obey Him, and Hell is for those who refuse to do so. God never explained why except to make it clear that communion with Him is life itself. When we lose that communion by sin, we risk the fires of Hell because that is the logical consequence of separation from Him.
In the end, any human speculation (my own included) does not change a thing about what God revealed. He created Heaven for the righteous and Hell for the wicked. Both will endure forever.
The Church is tasked with witnessing to the Person and mission of Christ to the end of time. He is supremely good, and He always obeys His Father. We should try to do the same.
49 thoughts on “Why Hell Really Lasts Forever”
Pingback: Avoiding Hell And The Devil’s Recruitment Tactics + Genuflect
To Steven:
Thanks for your response today.
It is interesting that you were able to see my submission from today, yet it is not posted.
It was about Maurice suggesting that I should not waste my time reading the Bible. And a quote from Jesus in scripture.
Can’t believe that you actually told me not to waste my time studying the Bible! There are so many passages of scripture about the Word of God.
For example:
Matthew 4
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
Chapter 4
The Temptation of Jesus. 1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2 He fasted for forty days and forty nights, and afterwards he was hungry. 3 The tempter approached and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become loaves of bread.” 4 He said in reply, “It is written:
‘One does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and made him stand on the parapet of the temple, 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written:
‘He will command his angels concerning you’
and ‘with their hands they will support you,
lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord, your God, to the test.’” 8 Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, 9 and he said to him, “All these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me.” 10 At this, Jesus said to him, “Get away, Satan! It is written:
‘The Lord, your God, shall you worship
and him alone shall you serve.’”
Jesus preached using quotes from the scriptures. He also preached against the traditions imposed by the religious leaders of the time.
Looks like Catholic Stand doesn’t want to explore the scriptures.
Your words >>> ‘Lucifer’s third, current, and perhaps most deadly attack is the inspiration that gave birth to the Theory of Evolution, which today intends to depose God from His position as Creator.”
This was a noteworthy point. But it is really not evolution vs. creation that causes the great battle. It is those who believe that evolution could have come about without an Intelligent Designer (read: God). That is so illogical on a thousand planes, you wonder why so many want to embrace it. —- Because of the sin of pride, as you say, but also because man does not want to remit or repent of the pleasures of the flesh (be it money, lust, power or comfort) in order to honor or obey God. Some look around at everyone else, and then surmise that in their own present state they should be “good enough” to make it to heaven. The thought of having to change their lives decidedly is too much sacrifice to ask, and so they kind of block the heavy thoughts out of their minds.
–
Evolutionist high priest Richard Dawkins says in his book – – – “Natural selection is the blind watchmaker, blind because it does not see ahead, does not plan consequences, has no purpose in view. Yet the living results of natural selection overwhelmingly impress us with the appearance of design as if by a master watchmaker, impress us with the illusion of design and planning.”
“the illusion of design and planning.” — right. That’s not science, Richard… that’s agenda.
Maurice, when an article rouses this many comments, on the dogma of hell
which is so rarely mentioned in the pulpit, nevermind society, (except for Holly-
wood) it really shows the-hunger-at-large for the Truth…
And the truth can be found in the Word of God!
To Maurice:
Guess you have the last word.
Catholic Stand blocked my latest submission.
Hi Robert,
In one of your responses today you expressed the opinion that nobody wanted to discuss scripture at Catholic Stand. In one of my previous responses to this article I had quoted a reference to scripture that supports the existence of purgatory. Yet you chose not to respond to that with a scriptural reference, you responded with a reference to an article discussing a priests opinion that indirectly supported the existence of purgatory (although you seemed to get a different interpretation from that article). If you are determined to believe that purgatory does not exist, then I’m not sure that anyone will be able to convince you otherwise regardless of references to scripture. It is at this point that we respectfully agree to disagree and move on. May God Bless you and your family!
Well said Maurice! I just finished reading St. Therese of Lisieux “Story of a soul”. It was very interesting to see her progression as she got older. Like other saints she had the willingness to die for our Lord…even in horrible ways (not sure I would ever have that level of courage, but God’s Grace can do anything).
I would highly recommend that any person wanting to advance in holiness read the autobiographies of the Saints & Servants of God.
My recommendations:
Divine Mercy in My Soul – Diary of St. Faustina
Diary of St. Gemma Galgani
Fatima in Lucia’s own words
Maryam of Bethlehem: The Little Arab
Mystical City of God (Mary of Agreda)
Other good reads:
Our Lady of Kibeho
The Boy Who Met Jesus (Kibeho)
My Heart Will Triumph (Mirjana Soldo – Medjugorje)
Vicka – Her Story (Medjugorje)
John 8:31-32
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews, who believed him: If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Maurice:
Thank you for replying to my comments.
Frankly, I don’t know where to begin with my response. There is so much to unpack in the article and the various comments.
I guess that I should begin by stating that I am a member of a Catholic Church. I have been for about 30 years through the RCIA program.
In 1998 I suffered a work-related crisis of faith and turned to the Bible. Having continued to read and study it, I zeroed in on eschatology.
Then, I began to notice that statements by priests, the Pope, and the CCC didn’t seem to align with the Word of God. I had a back and forth with an old friend, who is a priest. That didn’t end well.
I reached out to writers on Catholic Stand, as well, on various topics.
I feel a bit like Martin Luther, a Catholic who decided to question the RCC on numerous issues. He was driven out of the Church, and frankly demonized by Catholics.
Yet, your responses make me uneasy. You are suggesting that paganism is somehow “good”, but demonize the Jewish people for failing to recognize Jesus as their Messiah. According to the Bible, God has brought his chosen people back to their promised land. And He will send Jesus back to save them at the Battle of Armageddon. The kingdom of God will be established on earth in Jerusalem after Jesus returns; read about it in the Book of Revelation. There are also references in OT scriptures.
A few years ago I recall the papal astronomer declared that believers of creationism were following paganism. Yet, you seem to believe that Purgatory is an acceptable belief despite it’s roots in actual paganism.
My problem with certain Catholic dogmas has to do with their apparent conflict with the scriptures, or no apparent supporting scriptures.
Read Revelation 17 through 19 and give me your impressions about its message to us.
Hello Robert,
Thank you for reading my comment and writing me about it.
Couple things. Martin Luther was a highly educated man who was actually a Catholic priest. He disagreed with Church teaching on indulgences. The Churches doctrines on indulgences is that members of the Church can offer their supplication to God to obtain mercy and some level of forgiveness of that person’s sins. The Church encourages them to offer these actions that are pleasing to God.
The first action is an act of self-discipline like denying oneself a pleasure. Like giving up an extra helping of dessert. The second action is saying some special prayer or enduring some discomfort or pain as a form of self-mortification. The third is almsgiving, giving of your funds to help a poor person or donating to the church to help in their ministry.
Don’t be surprised by this. All religions that base their faith on Old Testament practice all three forms of self-denial. I have many Protestant friends that ask me to pray for their departed family members. Why do they ask a human being when they have been taught that Jesus is the only one who can make reparation for sin?
If you belong to the Catholic Church, you have a deep identification with Jesus. He considers you as a brother or a sister. If you do that perfectly, He will accept your suffering as part of His own suffering. He shares His redemptive work with His Church. If you pray for the repose of some soul, He listens and makes it come true if you are worthy of being His follower.
The Church knew this long before the Reformation. The Church wanted to parcel out Christ’s redemptive works. That’s why they started the practice of indulgences. I have no problem believing this because Blessed Mother spoke frequently about certain prayers, she requested us to pray.
Around 1500, the Church began construction of St Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican. This was a very expensive enterprise, so the Church placed an indulgence on any gift for that fund. Some unusually large gifts carried a plenary indulgence, which meant, if Christ were agreeable, all reparation for all that person’s sins were forgiven.
Martin Luther and his followers put a spin on the Church’s intentions and claimed the Church was selling indulgences. I’m sure you think that also, but let me tell you something. If I was stupid enough to thinks I can sell the gifts of God for my personal gain I’m sure I would be on the fast track to hell.
This demonizing and false witness was meant to destroy people and has been with us for millennia. Don’t pull it on me. You mention also that I deaminized the Jewish people for failing to recognize Jesus as their Messiah. I did not deaminize them. If you want an example of deamination is like listen to the American politicians on the news.
It does say in the Bible that God will establish His kingdom of heaven in Jerusalem. I don’t know where God is going to establish it. I don’t care where He establishes it. I do know that He did not abandon the Jews. Their first century leaders abandoned Him. If Jesus really does defeat the devil and punish him, the Jewish people have little to do with it. It was the Christians that fought the hard battles with the devil for two thousand years. But in the end, Jesus will remember and reward everything the Jews did for him.
Christ never told His apostles to write down His teachings, He told them to preach. The written Bible has been with us for two thousand years and has been translated into practically every language on Earth. And yet there are thousands of men with PhDs in scripture who cannot agree on an accurate rendition of the bible that everybody can recognize as true.
I think you are getting nowhere studying such a difficult book. I recommend reading about some human being that was an outstanding witness to Jesus. A good example is Saint Therese, the little Flower (Therese Martin), who was a young French girl. Her convent asked her to write a biography of her spiritual life. She was in a convent along with several of her real sisters, one of which was Mother Superior. She felt she was living too easy a life, spoiled by all the attention surrounding her. So, she asked Jesus to give her some suffering like other saints had. She came down with TB and died from it at age 24.
He autobiography became a worldwide best seller: “The Story of a Soul.” As a child she heard her father tell of a famous murder in France where a man who killed a prostitute and was being prepared for execution. He was unrepented. Therese was shocked. In her prayers she asked Jesus to bring that man to repentance. Later on, she was surprised to her father to mention that that same man on the day of his execution, asked for a crucifix. He kissed it and was executed.
Another very similar story is the famous murder of Maria Goretti who prayed for the conversion of her unrepented murderer and many years later he did repent. Look up Saint Maria Goretti on The Internet
Robert, I think you are barking up the wrong tree when you are so hostile against the Church. Jesus Christ is in control of His Church and all pagans and all the rest of the world. I do not think He created millions upon millions of pagans just to have them consigned into hell because they do not know what He is doing. He does know what He is doing and left human nature instinctively knowing what behavior He expects from people who never heard of Him in order to escape hell.
He is correcting the evils Satan is causing in the world, and he is using Christians as His front-line troops to defeat Satan. Pagans can escape hell, but those who believe Jesus have an invitation to enter heaven.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
To Maurice:
Are you suggesting that the concept of Purgatory is rooted in paganism, i.e. Greek religious beliefs?
Hello Stephen,
I see that you also have joined in on the conversation with Robert on the existence of Purgatory. And you were very polite and civil in your explanation, just like Guy was. Good witness!
I googled purgatory and found the Wikipedia article which states that the ancient Greeks had a view very similar to Purgatory in their religious understanding.
I think that’s the strongest argument in favor of purgatory. It shows that God has opened even the pagan mind through logic that there is some remedy for sin that is acceptable to God.
Maurice A. Williams
Hello Robert,
Thank you for reading my article and thanks for your comments to me and to others.
I see that you also have joined in on the conversation with Guy and Stephen on the existence of Purgatory.
I think God, since He is the creator of all humans, reaches out to humans any way He desires. For some humans he reached out in a public revelation that He expected the recipients to believe and co-operate with Him to build a Church visible to all men.
He made His revelation to the Israelite people, where He expected to find fertile ground, but, at the last moment, The Israelite people, through their Temple leaders, rejected the Messiah and had Him killed.
God then rejected the first-chosen and selected a second chosen people: Christian followers of Jesus, organized under Peter and the apostles. They accepted the mission and became the visible church of Jesus Christ, which is still in existence today,
Christians were a small minority of mankind. Many were outside the early Church and many humans are still outside the church built by Christ. But Christ did not abandon them. The naturally occurring religions that almost all humans formed naturally for themselves have always been influenced by God to prevent those humans from drifting too far from God.
An easy temptation for the devil to confuse humans is to get them to think that pagan religions are totally opposed to God. But that is too complicated an issue for an ordinary man to deal with. If you succumb to that particular temptation, you will be in over your head trying to understand Christ and you might never recognize the truth.
A lot of pagan people understand that God will punish those that refuse to serve Him and the punishment is tempered by the mercy of God. When I recognize that, I realize that God does indeed deal fairly with everybody, but I don’t want to study a pagan religion to see what God has done with pagans. I think it is much safer to study the religion god has offered as a public religion. If I approach that public religion with an open mind, there is a lot less possibility that I will misunderstand it and fail to accept the full teaching of Christ.
One more point. The church Christ founded upon Peter is God’s offering to humans a way to become identifiable with Jesus, Jesus says brothers and sisters united to Him in His effort to evangelize the whole world.
Many humans don’t join His Church and many have never even heard of His Gospel. Most of the them have not been called, but they can still avoid hell by complying with Natural Law, “Ethics” as we call it. If they choose ethical conduct there is no reason to punish them. It they choose unethical lives and God holds them responsible, God will punish them.
If God dealt severely with those who choose to defy Him, and the only two destinations for humans are heaven or hell, most humans would wind up in hell. But God knows far better than we do that most human do not pay sufficient attention to what they are doing. They become caught up in wrong choices, and only when it seems too late, they finally realize what they are doing. They should not go to eternal hell for that, but what they did is still wrong.
Purgatory is a logical way to deal with those half-hearted sinners. When I realized that the pagan Greeks realized that, it confirmed my conviction that God did indeed prepare Purgatory to deal with those situations all along from the first appearance of humans to the last day, in order to display His justice and mercy to those He created.
The full explanation of what God is doing is contained in the teaching of His church. We all ought to have faith in His church.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
To Steven:
My wife has a copy of the book, Purgatory, Explained by the Lives and Legends of the Saints, written by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.
It is 427 pages.
Admittedly, I have not read it. Scanning through it reveals little or no scriptures.
Again, to my point, there is nothing in scriptures that truly confirm the existence of Purgatory. So what are the origins of this dogma by the RCC?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_purgatory
Dear Robert, It is too bad this or similar discussions re: purgatory cannot simply be responded to with multiple links to the same discussion in articles here-they always go the same and at the end of the day, the fact is this is a site called CATHOLIC STAND, not Protestant Stand. Other useful links would be links to all the church teaching and church fathers – prior to Henry 8 and Luther and Calvin and Zwingli – about purgatory.
Indeed, since there are by various counts 12,000 different protestant denominations, or 20,000, or even by one over 30,000, saying “protestant stand” would in no way indicate if this was reference to those protestants and to those denominations who believe in purgatory as do catholics and the catholic church, or if it were a reference to those who do not.
I defy you to find the words “biblical translation” anywhere in Holy Scripture, but I am almost certain that what you have been reading is a translation of the original books. The words SOLA SCRIPTURA and SOLA FIDE also do not appear in these translations, unless the re-writer has added words not in the originals.
Many protestant translations of Holy Scripture are at odds with each other on the translation of various words or phrases- where in any version you accept is there laid out a method or system for deciding, based on your version of the bible alone, of how to determine which translation is correct? God would not tell one believer 2+2=4 and another 2+2 =7, nor would the Holy Spirit inspire one translator to state “Jesus is the Son of God” and another to say, “Not.”
Think of the plethora of words that apply to theological issues which many many believers and scholars accept that are not in the bible – eg trinity, etc.
As catholics we believe much based on our faith which we believe and accept as THE one true faith, a faith that gives us the evidence of many things not seen with the eyes. We also accept tradition as handed down from the apostles, through the church fathers to us today. This includes PURGATORY. We also accept that the catholic church is the one, true, holy and apostolic church of Jesus Christ and that there is NO protestant church of Jesus.
The fact that the words “catholic church” do not appear in Holy Scripture does not negate the tradition, from the very beginnings of the spread of the catholic church throughout the world, that the catholic church – as referred to with these words by many many of the fathers of the church – is Jesus’s one true church. For the “origins” of this tradition, valid according to THE church’s teaching, simply google “purgatory” and “church fathers”.
At the end of the day, God has blest us all with CATHOLIC STAND, and has seen to it that you too read it and engage us with thoughtful comments that spur us all on to His truth. Deo Gratias! and thank God for you. Guy, Texas
Hello Stephen,
I see that you also have joined in on the conversation with Robert on the existence of Purgatory. And you were very polite and civil in your explanation, just like Guy was. Good witness!
I googled purgatory and found the Wikipedia article which states that the ancient Greeks had a view very similar to Purgatory in their religious understanding.
I think that’s the strongest argument in favor of purgatory. It shows that God has opened even the pagan mind through logic that there is some remedy for sin that is acceptable to God.
Maurice A. Williams
To Steven:
Apparently Fr. Doyle has a different answer than you.
https://catholicreview.org/is-purgatory-in-bible-kneel-sit-or-stand/
I’m not convinced.
Okay, after reading the article you referenced I don’t see how his words are much different…? I stated that Purgatory is indirectly mentioned in the Bible, and that’s pretty much what his article is saying.
Hello Guy McClung,
Thanks for reading my article and thank you for the comment.
You made my day today because it sounds like you are becoming penitent about your sins. If you carry this through further, you will escape hell. That’s what God’s mercy is all about: you and the vast majority of Christs followers will experience the mercy and complete forgiveness of God.
But there is one more step. You must experience true contrition to have your sins completely forgiven. This happens in purgatory. Purgatory is a much gentler experience than hell, and you know you will be released one day, whereas in hell you know you will never be released.
From purgatory you will be totally cleansed form every sin you ever committed and be given a second chance in life and the certitude that you will accomplish the goals God prepared for you before He even created you.
Good luck my friend and may God be with you the rest of your existence.
Maurice A. Williams
But there is one more step. You must experience true contrition to have your sins completely forgiven. This happens in purgatory. Purgatory is a much gentler experience than hell, and you know you will be released one day, whereas in hell you know you will never be released.
From purgatory you will be totally cleansed form every sin you ever committed and be given a second chance in life and the certitude that you will accomplish the goals God prepared for you before He even created you.
Good luck my friend and may God be with you the rest of your existence.
Maurice A. Williams
Maurice:
Sorry, but there is nothing in scriptures to support the existence of Purgatory. If it existed, wouldn’t Jesus tell us about it?
To OrdinaryCatholic:
I was just suggesting that you take a look at the entire chapter to learn more about the false prophet. There are a few clues to recognize him. One is the implementation of a monetary system that will require everyone to accept the “mark of the beast”.
Robert, regarding the existence of purgatory….it actually is in the New Testament Gospel of Luke:
LUKE 12:57-59
57 “Why don’t you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort to settle with him along the way, or he may he drag you to the judge, and the judge will hand you over to the officer, and the officer will throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last penny.
The last line (59) indirectly reveals the existence of purgatory. If this line were discussing hell it would not mention the possibility of getting out of prison by “paying the last penny”. That process of paying is purification of the soul that is redeemable. The worse the crime, the longer and more agonizing the suffering. Only those souls that completely reject God send themselves to hell.
Thank you, Stephen, for reading my article and thanks for the comments.
You are the second commentator that agrees with me on this issue. If all commentators agreed, we could possibly bring our understanding on this difficult issue to a greater level.
Many Catholic commentators say “God doesn’t send us to hell, the wicked choose to go there themselves.” I think this is true. They do not want a friendly relationship with God. Of their own volition, they want to distance themselves from God.
I guess it makes them feel comfortable with the absence of God, but when they realize what they have done, they don’t want to repent and return to God because they are obsessed with having it their own way.
I also have compared damned soul to black holes in space. Those souls are so impressed with themselves that there is no room for others, even God, in their hearts.
Good thoughts for both of us. I hope I meet you some future day in God’s heavenly kingdom, and we can share some experiences on our journeys through our difficult and perilous lives on Earth.
Best personal regards,
Maurice A. Williams
Pingback: THVRSDAY EDITION – Big Pulpit
To Ordinary Catholic:
The Pope is wrong. As a Catholic and a student of eschatology, many of his words are “red flags”. I’m reminded of Revelation 13: 11 Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb’s but spoke like a dragon.
He has suggested that there should be a UN of Religion, made agreements with other religions that deny Christ is the Son of God, indicated that atheists can get into heaven, etc.
Read the entire chapter to learn more about the false prophet of the Book of Revelation.
I don’t need to reread Revelation to know the Pope is wrong in this since I’ve already said he was wrong here:
” If the Pope was right that would mean Christ was wrong. And if Christ was wrong He would not be God. But He IS God the Son so He is right. 😉”
I really like the article; it gave me a lot to think about! If you don’t mind me asking, what do you mean by Evolution? Do you mean a neo-Darwinian process of atheistic materialism where living things essentially, through stages, make themselves, or are you referring to the biological principle that living things change over time due to natural processes such as mutation or other alteration of the DNA, whether guided or not? I ask because, not only am I a convert to the Catholic Church, but also a masters level biologist teaching college. I have often envisioned evolution as an extrusion process whereby God could have called mans’ body forth before instilling a rational soul. I could be wrong, and I am always open to correction. Thanks again for the excellent article!
Hello Ben,
Thanks for reading my article and thanks for the comment. It was very pleasing to find someone that agrees with me.
I suppose there are two schools of evolution. One is the thought that animals routinely change as their environments change resulting in humans of different races. The other is what I call Darwinian evolution resulting in changes into not only different races but different species within the genre Homo, and even different genre within the family Hominidae.
The second is an evolution that contradicts Scripture and the Church, both of which hold that there is only one species of man: Homo sapiens. All the other homolids discovered by evolutionists and placed in different genre than Homo are not human. How can a scientist who studies fossilized bones and DNA predict skin color and hair patterns or general appearance of new species in different genre?
I think Darwinian evolution is attempting to displace God as creator. If science doesn’t find a better explanation for the origin of man, it will destroy the biblical explanation that God created man special.
Respectively,
Maurice A. Williams
Hello Oracle,
Thank you for reading my article and thanks for the comment.
I judge it is never right for anyone to obey a human being or an angel if they are urging us to do something in opposition to God’s will. But if humans or angels expect our obedience when they tell us to comply with something that is in agreement with God’s will. Then I think we are obliged to obey.
All civil law is told to us by our politicians, who are all human, and if we disobey, they will punish us. God has conferred onto human governments, who are acting in compliance with God’s laws, the authority to enforce civil laws.
So, in answer to your question, if I tell anyone to comply with a law that did not come from God, my command has no backup from God and I should be ignored. But if I tell them something that we all know comes from God, then they should obey, not because I commanded them but because I am repeating somethings God approves of.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
Maurice, Thank you for a fine article.
Hell really does last forever and unrepentant grievous sinners do end up in hell – for all eternity. Jesus told us this. So have you. I have also said this to people. It is church doctrine. To say otherwise contradicts Holy Scripture inspired by God and says Jesus got this wrong – which can only lead to the conclusion-if He was in error – that He was not God [and should, I guess, be referred to with lower case “h” – “he”]. Of course someone who did contradict teaching, Scripture, Jesus etc in this way would be a heretic [note: heretics cannot be pope]. Guy, Texas
““No one can be condemned forever, because that is not the logic of the Gospe!” (297). Jorge Maria Bergoglio, Amoris Laetitia,
Guy, would you be sad if Pope Francis was right ?
Dear Ord Pap, I will be sad if Jorge does not go to heaven. I will be sad if I don’t [my best friend forever, two children and four gkids sare waiting]. There are many many – a large plethora, a ginormous abundance – of things Jorge B has said and done that are not right, many things said and proclaimed that are heresy. Had you heard my confessions since 1955, you would know this [except the heresies] is true about me too. I rejoice in the fact that God my Papa, and Jorge’s, has almighty power and is presently using that and His love to the max so Jorge and I get home to Him. You too. And, thanks to God, each of us is worth it, esp since His Son made that clear on Calvary. God bless you and yours. Guy, Texas
Thanks Guy, you are always the noble gentleman whose faith is not lost on those of us who may disagree with the particulars.
Hello Guy,
I’m impressed by the way you handled this discussion with Robert. You were very polite and non-argumentative, and you stuck to your guns and provided many citations that confirm the Catholic position.
I think this is the way it should be when we discuss differences in Faith. We should not fight over our opinion. After all, it is not our opinions that counts, but the opinion of God.
More eyes than you think have seen your witnessing, but here s one set of eyes that applauds your efforts.
Maurice A. Williams
It’s good to know YOU can’t go to hell, Mr. Williams.
Hello ordinary Papist;
Thank you for reading my article and for commenting on it.
I wish it were true that I can’t go to hell, actually I should not Act in a way that would cause God To punish my rebellious heart in hell. That would be easier to do that one would think. All I have to do is refrain from opposing God’s will in any way, and to comply with His will in every way.
That would mean that I will obey all His commandments by avoiding murder, robbery, not bearing false witness against my neighbor. It would also mean that I would love nd respect my neighbor be generous to him, help him if he is in need. Don’t we wish all our neighbors were like that
I’m trying to do my duty advising other to refrain from murder, robbery, etc. and complying with God’s in every way, as God advisees all Christians to do.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
Ordinary Papist,
I would be sad if Pope Francis was right. If the Pope was right that would mean Christ was wrong. And if Christ was wrong He would not be God. But He IS God the Son so He is right. 😉
As I read and study more of the Bible, I find that I disagree with the articles (including yours) posted on Catholic Stand, as well as the CCC.
I’m often reminded of Paul’s letter to Timothy.
2 Timothy 3:16
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
16 [a]All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,[b]
J
Footnotes
3:16–17 Useful for teaching…every good work: because as God’s word the scriptures share his divine authority. It is exercised through those who are ministers of the word.
3:16 All scripture is inspired by God: this could possibly also be translated, “All scripture inspired by God is useful for….” In this classic reference to inspiration, God is its principal author, with the writer as the human collaborator. Thus the scriptures are the word of God in human language. See also 2 Pt 1:20–21.
2 Timothy 4:1-8
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
Chapter 4
Solemn Charge.[a] 1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power: 2 proclaim the word; be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient; convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching. 3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity,[b] will accumulate teachers 4 and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths. 5 But you, be self-possessed in all circumstances; put up with hardship; perform the work of an evangelist; fulfill your ministry.
Reward for Fidelity. 6 [c]For I am already being poured out like a libation, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 [d]I have competed well; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 [e]From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.
Footnotes
4:1–5 The gravity of the obligation incumbent on Timothy to preach the word can be gauged from the solemn adjuration: in the presence of God, and of Christ coming as universal judge, and by his appearance and his kingly power (2 Tm 4:1). Patience, courage, constancy, and endurance are required despite the opposition, hostility, indifference, and defection of many to whom the truth has been preached (2 Tm 4:2–5).
4:3 Insatiable curiosity: literally, “with itching ears.”
4:6 The apostle recognizes his death through martyrdom to be imminent. He regards it as an act of worship in which his blood will be poured out in sacrifice; cf. Ex 29:38–40; Phil 2:17.
4:7 At the close of his life Paul could testify to the accomplishment of what Christ himself foretold concerning him at the time of his conversion, “I will show him what he will have to suffer for my name” (Acts 9:16).
4:8 When the world is judged at the parousia, all who have eagerly looked for the Lord’s appearing and have sought to live according to his teachings will be rewarded. The crown is a reference to the laurel wreath placed on the heads of victorious athletes and conquerors in war; cf. 2 Tm 2:5; 1 Cor 9:25.
Fear of Hell, or threatening others with Hell, has caused no end of suffering, not only people torturing themselves with shame and guilt but also inflicting harm on others. Going by your essay, the entire concept of Hell seems beyond our understanding. So let’s drop it okay?
If we all believed we were headed to the same place — in Dickens’s words, “all fellow-passengers to the grave, instead of other races of beings bound on other journeys” — we would treat each other better and this would be a better world.
Whether it is right in the sight of God for us to obey you rather than God, you be the judge
“How can you be so sure God follows the Church’s orders?”
Hello Captcrisis,
Thanks for reading my article and for your comment.
I think God wants all of us Christians to bear witness to His teaching by repeating His teachings to others and by our example in the way we conduct our lives. He especially wants us to warn others when we see misconduct operating in their lives. He warns us that if we make no effort to admonish sinners, He will hold us complicit in the evil thy are committing.
If everybody did admonish the sinner, there would be very little evil operating in our world and very little murders, rape and robbery would plague our societies, not to overlook the benefit of a warning potential wrongdoers that heir evil actions will bring God against them.
You mention that “”going by my essay, the entire concept of hell seems beyond our understanding.” I suppose it is true that much of what God requires of us is difficult to understand, but God did not command us to understand His ways, He commands us to obey Him, Even our political government operates on the principle of ignorance of the law us not an excuse. Every citizen must obey the laws of his country whether he understands them or not. Abd you and I my friend, must obey God or ender His discipline,
You quote Dickens that “we are all passengers to the grave.” Dickens left out the most important part. Once we reach the grave we must all endure the judgement of God.
Hope this clarifies my position.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
Hello Captcrisis
Thank you for reading my article and for your comment.
I meant no grief to those I criticize for their wanton reluctance to honor God by obeying Him. You are quite right when you say I imply (in my essay): “the entire concept of hell seems beyond our understanding.”
I did not intend to confuse people. Rather I made my best effort to write clearly and state my case as intelligibly as I could. But you raise a good question. God did not command us to understand His revelation. He commands us to believe it.
One does not need to understand a law to abide by it. All that is needed is the choice to believe it. If the command comes from God, there is no possibility that God is mistaken or is misinforming us. He is God. He doesn’t make mistakes. His mind is so much superior to our minds, that I suppose many do not fully understand what His meaning is when He makes a revelation, but the commands are clear enough. If he commands us not to kill, not to steal, not to bear false witness, we should choose not to do any of these things.
IF we defy God and do them anyway, He is justified in recognizing us as wicked and needful of correction. If we continue in defiance of Him. He is justified in punishing us any way He prefers.
Our civil laws are the same. Ignorance is no excuse for not obeying civil laws. We mut learn our civil laws or hire a lawyer to defend us, but civil law is the law and we must obey it. Shouldn’t Gods laws be the same? If He commands us do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness should we not obey? We should obey God’s laws just as we obey civil laws.
You quote Dickens saying we are all fellow passengers on the trip to our graves, but Dickens forgot the most important part: at the grave we will have to endure God’s judgement.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
Hello Captcrisis.
Thank you for reading my article nd thanks for the comment,
God does not follow the church’s orders. It is the other way round. The church follows God’s orders.
Sincerely,
Maurice A. Williams
I used to wonder the same thing…wouldn’t it be better not to exist than to live in eternal suffering? However, God does not send souls to hell…they choose to go there by their own unbreakable defiance.
Exorcists have written down the answers to questions asked of demons when they were compelled to answer. When asked “did you make a poor choice?” they answer “yes”. When asked if they would change their choice they always say “no”. They are so firmly committed to their own will and they are so lost in darkness and despair that they cannot even stand to be in the presence of anything Holy. Some exorcists consider this part of God’s Mercy to allow them to be far from Him. I sometimes wonder if the Black Holes in space discovered by astronomers are a representation of souls in hell. The gravitational attraction is so strong in a Black Hole that light cannot escape. Sounds like a metaphor for an ego that is so self centered that it cannot see anything outside of itself.