…or so you’d think if you got all your information about Catholicism from blog comboxes.
Not surprisingly, Pope Francis has been in the news lately. The media jumped on his offhand comments about homosexuals, breathlessly reported on a letter he wrote to an atheist, and made much hay over an interview given by the Vatican’s new Secretary of State (the media was apparently under the impression that Pope Francis is a very clever ventriloquist, and he was the one talking while the new Secretary’s mouth was moving – at least, that’s what they reported).
A common refrain I’m observing in the comboxes of various Catholic bloggers lately, when said blogger discusses one of these media reports, goes something like this:
“The Pope needs to stop making remarks like this! They’re too easily misunderstood! No one should have to write an article after the fact explaining what the Pope actually said/meant. The Pope needs to deliberate for hours on end before so much as opening his mouth! Every word must be crafted with the utmost perfection so that the media doesn’t get the wrong idea!” etc., etc.
And, my favorite:
“This kind of thing never happened when Benedict XVI/John Paul II was Pope!”
To these people, I respond:
Really? That’s some pretty amazing selective memory you have going on there. Granted, I’ve only been Catholic for the last ten years, but I remember:
The Condom Kerfuffle, in which the MSM proclaimed that Pope Benedict said condoms were perfectly okay for everyone to use (when he actually said that in certain situations, the use of a condom could indicate that someone was trying to act in a moral fashion by not spreading disease, and that trying to act morally could be a good first step on the road to repentance).
Pope Benedict’s speech at the University of Regensburg, in which (according to the media) the Pope said that Mohammed was evil incarnate and all Muslims were going to hell. (The Pope later explained that his words had been misunderstood by Muslims.)
The publication of Benedict’s encyclical Caritas in Veritate, in which the MSM announced that the Pope attacked capitalism as always evil in any circumstance and wholeheartedly supported the Occupy Wall Street movement.
The motu proprio Summorum Pontificum was, according to the media, Pope Benedict’s last ditch attempt to revive a dying church by resurrecting a dead language.
John Paul II’s release of Dominus Iesus in 2000 spawned dozens of newspaper headlines (one of which I remember seeing in my college newspaper) proclaiming that “the Pope says non-Catholics aren’t really Christians!”
In Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, John Paul II stated unequivocally, “Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren […] I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful” (emphasis mine). Seems pretty straightforward, but the MSM headlines in response? “Pope’s words about women’s ordination spark debate” or similar.
I’m sure I could list hundreds of examples dating back decades, if not centuries, about how the media flagrantly and deliberately misrepresents a pope’s statements, leading to a need for the Vatican et al to issue a clarification. This is not a new phenomenon. The media does not exist to tell the truth – it exists to make people rich. Juicy headlines sell newspapers and garner millions of website hits, which generate revenue. “Pope Reiterates 2,000-year-old Teaching of the Church” doesn’t make money; “Pope Declares that All Atheists Go to Heaven” does. Truth has nothing to do with it, and this type of misrepresentation for personal gain is something that’s been happening as long as the papacy has existed.
Indeed, St. Peter himself could have been speaking about the mainstream media when he said, “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
Of course, in every combox you find at least one person lamenting that the current Pope is destroying the Catholic Church. One example:
“This is doctrinal immodesty, if I may use the phrase. Rather than clothe the precious doctrine of the Body of Christ in garments of sobriety, modesty and Prudence, the truths of the Church are being sold away [by Pope Francis, presumably] cheaply to the moral perverts and enemies of Christ.”
I’m very curious what the commenter in question would have had to say about some of the Church’s earlier Popes:
- Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.
- Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
- Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who “sold” the Papacy
- Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante’s Divine Comedy
- Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.
- Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.
- Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors’ reserves on a single ceremony
- Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
(The preceding examples are taken from E. Chamberlain’s book “The Bad Popes,” as summarized by Wikipedia.)
We once had a Pope who was murdered while engaging in the act of adultery – and the Church survived! After that, can anyone honestly believe that the Church will be utterly decimated and destroyed simply because the current pope made statements about atheists that were deliberately misconstrued by the media in order to boost ratings?! Perhaps the Holy Spirit is insulted by the implication that His protection of the Truth was considered so weak and ineffective.
So please, fellow Catholics, the proper response when reading a MSM headline about the Pope changing a long-held doctrine of Catholicism is not panic or rage or despair. Rather, it’s a yawn, an eye-roll, and a resigned sigh – as well as a realization that we’re once again called upon to engage in the new evangelization for the sake of the Kingdom in the realm of social media and among our friends and family.
958 thoughts on “Pope Francis Has Single-Handedly Destroyed Catholicism”
The simple fact is the Church, like Christ cannot be pigeonholed into one particular ideology or another. Christ far more than our view points.
Here is what did not happen at calvary that we get very confused about as Christians (Catholic or protestant). One, Christ did not take away our free will. Two, Christ did not give man the last word.
While Christ is the only gate we all pass through to heaven, it is not man who decides. ALL judgement has given unto Him and He will be the one who decides. That, is what it means when Christ NO ONE comes to the Father but through ME.
For it does say NOT all those who say LORD LORD will enter into the kingdom of heaven but ONLY those who do the Father’s will.
As for which Church is the true Church, well would it not be the one that represents the kingdom on earth as it is in heaven? How, ( I am confused by this too) would a protestant call the Church the whore of Babylon and yet accept the bible as it was put together by that very whore of Babylon? The canon was not really put together until the 4th century. Christians (the 1% of them that even knew how to read) did not have pocket bibles with addresses on them to quickly refer to. They did not have any of those things. Nothing like it. So, what did most Christians have? The oral tradition, which Paul refers to when he says repeatedly to HOLD FAST TO THE TRADITIONS as we have passed them on to you.
On earth as it is in heaven. The words of the prayer from the Lord. A prophecy and showing how the Holy Spirit shapes the Church the faithful. The SAINTS. For those who insist we are not to refer to Mary as our mother, ignore what Christ proclaimed from the cross when He said, “Behold YOUR mother.”
It is then affirmed in revelation 12:17 where it says, “The devil went off to wage war with the rest of her offspring, those who bear witness to Christ and keep God’s commandments.” Combine that with what Christ is saying to His beloved disciple and you see how even those words were eternal.
On earth as it is in heaven. Read revelation and all of the images in there. Saints and angels sending prayers to the throne of God in the form of incense (Revelation 5:8). Elders gathered around the alter in lengthy white robes. Golden cups, the blood of the LAMB. All of these heavenly images being seen as the heavenly mass. Which is the one on EARTH as it is in HEAVEN? Which one of the 30,000 interpretations am I to follow? My own?
The bottom line here is the Pope will often say things that step on the toes of the proud. Such is the way of Christ. Now, is it concerning to me that there is a socialist angle that will be taken from the words? Yes, it ought to concern all followers about the direction the church is guided. Faith, that the gates of hell will not prevail is to be reminded to everyone. Now, let us be clear here. Communism is not what this is. Communism is determined to destroy all faith. It is been that way and will always be that way.
Remember, for those that insist they know how Christ will judge the nations in the end. He actually made it pretty clear in Matthew 25:31-46. He will separate the goats from the sheep, and He will say to the sheep, enter into the kingdom of my Father which has been prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For, when I was hungry you fed me…….
And the “righteous” will ask when did we ever do these things unto You? He will say….Truly I say, each time you did unto the least of my bretheren, you did unto ME.
Stop with the devils trap about who you think will get into the Kingdom. That is not up to us. Never has been, and never will be. I suggest Carl, if you read this, to hold fast to the traditions and stop speaking out against them, I strongly suggest that.
Good sir you can interpret your way and I can interpret my way. The Fact is a person has to accept Jesus and also live as he would. That said no man is perfect and will make mistakes in his/her lifetime, but if you truly repent and ask for forgiveness you will enter into the Kingdom. The key word there is truly, God does know your heart, but he does not want to just know it he wants to have it.
Here is what I say after I pray, “Let them see you in me.” That is our job in life to get people to know and live Christ not Mary, not the saints, no one but Jesus. I never said Mary and the saints are not men/woman of God just stop idolizing them.
Lets make something clear that is a big confusion among protestants in regards to Catholics praying “to saints.” First of all, there is ONE mediator. No argument there. Christ is the ONE mediator. However, there are many intercessors. Any time YOU pray for someone, you are interceding. Whenever you ask someone to pray for you, you are not praying to that person. You are in fact praying to Christ THROUGH intercessory prayer.
That brings me to the false notion that protestants accuse Catholics of praying to “dead people.” First of all, those that die in Christ are not dead at all. That is affirmed in several places in scripture. The dead rose out of their graves when Christ died. There are inferences of the Saints and angels making prayers to the throne in the form of incense.
To deny the Saints are alive is essentially calling Christ a liar. No other way to put it, since all of this is based on the very promises from Christ.
No, this is our affirmation of Christs words by recognizing a communion with saints. It is too bad that protestants deny themselves these sorts of riches that has been offered freely from a God whose intentions was to establish the Kingdom as a family. Christ refers to God as Father. Followers as brothers and sisters in Christ. This is the image and images that are burned on our minds.
Hence, the whole eternal reason for Jesus to be born through a woman at all. When Christ says to the disciple whom He loves to…BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER, those are eternal words. We cannot sit and say EVERYTHING ELSE Christ said was eternal except for those words. It is one of the last things He says, and one of the last things He gives before He gives up His life. You cannot just say.,….well those words were not eternal. Considering when it is affirmed in Revelation 12:17. The entire chapter refers to the woman that gave birth to Christ. It shows the devil pursuing the woman. It says…..”The devil became enraged and went off to wage war against the REST OF HER OFFSPRING, ALL of those who BEAR WITNESS to Christ and keep His commandments.”
Combine that with what the Lord says from the cross to the disciple who is BEARING WITNESS and KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. Those words from Christ are ALSO ETERNAL.
We can get into how the church is infallible as the Bible is infallible. You see, that is also another confusion. The Bible was written through FALLIBLE men. Through sinners. Do no think that was not intentional either. All of the gospels are infallible and just as the Holy Spirit guides those that wrote the scripture, is the same Holy Spirit that guides the Church which is the pillar of truth. (1st Timothy 3:15)
If all you see is the sin through the sinners then you might as well only look at the sin of the sinners that wrote the Bible. It is the exact same thing. It is human temptation.
Again, the reason why the Pope called protestants wounded Christians is because of the denials of all these riches that has been given unto us though Christ.
We can get into the notion that protestants actually think it is sinful to study saints in the past. They are quick to boast that they themselves are saints. Again, another dangerous road. When we start to boast that WE are saints, well watch out. Saints (true Saints) never boast of such things. In fact during the Last Supper, all of the disciples boasted that they would never betray Christ. Most of them said it to themselves and Peter openly exalted himself when proclaimed he would never betray. (That he was a Saint)
Only ONE disciple did not do this. One of them leaned on Christs chest and asked if it was him that was going to betray when he asked….”Who is it?” Not coincidentally, it was that disciple that was at the foot of the cross BEARING WITNESS. In fact that was such a poignant moment when he reclined at the table, Peter later asked Christ after the resurrection about that disciple that reclined at the table.
DO not boast about being a Saint. There are a lot of false teachings, and a lot of the pointing fingers. I would consider researching some things.
Watch the Journey Home either on youtube or on EWTN. Listen to conversions and the false preconceived notions that have been taught or accused about the Catholic Church. The very Church the Bible itself came from.
You Catholics are all nuts, Jesus is the way, the truth, the life nobody comes to the father but through Jesus. Everybody else on this earth to include Popes and Mary all fall short the glory of our Lord. You all pray to Mary and say the rosary and confess to Priest, all for not.
Matthew 6:7
7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.) This is where the Rosary fails, it does nothing. You praise Mary 53 times and the lord only 6 while saying the rosary, sounds crazy to me.
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, Mary is not a mediator, no one is.
Christ also said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. For those that believe those words were not eternal (if you do believe you can pick and choose which words are eternal and which are not then you are mislead down a wrong path) then we can affirm those words are eternal in Revelation 12:17.
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring–those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
Now combined those words affirmed in Revelations wiith what our Lord says when He says BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. He did not say BEHOLD MY MOTHER. No, He said…Behold YOUR mother.
There is ONE God and there is ONE Lord. The Lord said BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. I suggest you do, and suggest you stop passing along false teachings, false doctrine, and a false Christ. You are with out understanding, and you are on dangerous ground when you pass on such lessons.
I do believe in God so I guess I am lost on this mother thing. I accepted Jesus into my life when I became a Christian at around 25 years old. I guess I started of wrong calling Catholics nuts for that I apologize. I guess my question for anyone would be why do Catholics pray to Mary and or Saints. If you believe in Prayer you can’t get it to the Lord any faster if you do it through Mary or the Saints. I never said that Mary was a nobody, but she was a sinner like you and me. The scripture I stated clearly say what I mean, Mary cannot be a mediator, so why pray to her.
Catholic doctrine is confusing being it can change with every Pope, but God never changes. My Friend you can go through life doing the Catholic thing, but if you don’t confess with your mouth and mean it with your heart you will not be joining me in the next life. You cannot be saved by works and good deeds, that’s where Catholics get confused like I did when I was a catholic my first 24 years of life.
Side note:
Also, if you like Music tune in to K-love in your area it has great Christian music, I listen to it 24/7 and I am filled with the spirit of God. Give it a try and tell me what you think.
President Obama issues statement on papal canonizations:
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21257
President Barack Obama has issued a statement on the canonizations of St. John XXIII and St. John Paul II.
“The work and witness of both Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II shaped not only the Catholic Church but the world,” he said. “Pope John XXIII articulated powerful roles for the Church in the cause of global peace and justice, and by convening the Second Vatican Council he revolutionized not only aspects of worship but the Catholic Church’s relationship with other faith communities.”
“Pope John Paul II helped inspire the Solidarity movement in Poland, a movement that spread and eventually helped to end communism in Eastern Europe, and he spoke out forcefully against apartheid in South Africa and genocide in Rwanda, President Obama continued. “He had a special rapport with young people, drawing many of them to the Church’s work and teachings.”
“We celebrate these Saints and the leadership of His Holiness Pope Francis, and we look forward to continuing to work with Pope Francis and Catholics around the world to advance peace and justice for all people,” he concluded.
Obama/Democrats=Jesuit Pope Francis Approved Catholic; Republicans/Teabaggers=Nazi/KKK Puritan Southern Racist Hatemongers who cannot accept that a Black Man is in the White House so they make up BS excuses to hate Catholic Values which are by definition Progressive.
Catholicism is a cult, the Vatican and Catholics are the same level of secrecy and corruption as the Church of Scientology, the Pope is just a man, he has no higher value than the rest of us, you don’t need to pray to him or kiss his ring or bow to him. He is just a man. He does not have a right to tell me whether i go to Heaven or Hell, he is not God, nor the Son. He can not “bless” you, he can not choose your fate, he can not make true Christians bow to false idols such as a man named “Pope”. Because, he is just a man. He is not my God, he is not my Savior, he is not an Angel, he is a man, and he is a false idol. If you praise the Pope so be it, “but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”-Joshua 24:15
What is cult about saving 850,000 Jews from the Nazis? Name one other supposed “cult” that did more to save the Jews than the Jesuits and the Catholic saints? There is none! They walk their talk and have currently the greatest Pope ever especially since hes a Jesuit whos exposing the Religious Reichers (especially in Amurica). Jesus was a Catholic Communist who today would be by definition an Occupy Wall Street Protester Amen!
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”–Pastor Niemoller, German Lutheran Anti-Nazi Protester Holocaust Museum Favorite
http://www.oakwood.edu/historyportal/Ejah/2011/Anti-Semitism%20in%20Germany.htm
And all Gods people say AMEN! Well said
You’re confused. JPII and BXVI “got in trouble” with secularists for preaching the truth. Francis causes problems by babbling nonsense and appearing to be more committed to leftism than the One True Church. (Hopefully I don’t offend any Novus Ordo heretics with that term.)
Still haven’t learned that bearing false witness against one’s neighbor is a sin, I see.
You still haven’t learned that so is heresy Ms. Wahlund!
Yeah. Just as I thought. You are more Catholic than the Pope.
You’re more heretical than Nancy Pelosi.
Heretic is a word for religious zealots.
‘Heretic’ is a word that drives heretics like you crazy, I know.
You should stop putting your desires above truth.
God bless you! Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis peccatoribus!
Leftism? You mean Pope Francis being a Jesuit is a problem? The Nazis used to spread the same conspiracy theory crap about the Jesuits for being “leftists”. Nazism is a Far-Right Wing ideology that happens to seduce Puritans who think they are better than the Pope instead of listening and humbling themselves to the Vicar of Christ who’s giving “tough love” to the Catholic and Christian world. Its a breath of fresh air and I can tell you as a born and raised Jew Pope Francis makes me want to convert to Roman Catholicism because its about time I hear a Catholic stand up to the Religious Reichers/Pharisees in America that keep Jews from taking Jesus seriously. If you want to know why Jews don’t like to accept Christ it really goes back to the Grandi quote “I like your Christ I don’t like your Christians”…its true. Walk the talk like Francis. Government has a role in social justice. Capitalism is the greatest tyranny of the 21st century, etc.
Nazism is right wing? Do you know that it refers to the National Socialist Workers Party? Since when is socialism a right-wing ideology?
You’re insane. I’m sorry that Catholic orthodoxy offends you so greatly. (That makes sense, you being an apostate.)
I failed to notice that the mainstream media outlets had gone that far in their distortion of what Pope Benedict had said. Your example itself fails to demonstrate your claim because it is an example of a major Establishment Media outlet pointing out that non-media issue advocates had proclaimed erroneous claims.
All your other examples fail as well.
The bottom line is that the Establishment Media doesn’t have to turn their Reality Distortion Fields to max when Pope Francis opens his mouth. I’ve come to suspect that his refusal to wear the traditional red shoes has nothing to do with humility but instead he detests their taste in his mouth.
Uhhhh… you’re mistaken. For example, check out this article that Fr. Fessio wrote in response to the wildly misleading headlines present at the time: http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/11/23/guestview-did-the-pope-%E2%80%9Cjustify%E2%80%9D-condom-use-in-some-circumstances/
Until Catholics can get past grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), everything else is a side issue…
Get past how, exactly? You don’t think Catholics should believe in Christ? That’d pretty much negate the entire point of Catholicism…
Long live ignorance.
If child molestation is good enough to carry on protected for hundreds of years with the flock believing that it was just lies and enemy’s of the church to then see it was not lies from outside of the catholic church but lies from within.
This disgusting un natural organisation will live on as long as the ignoramus faithful embrace its teaching as a divine prophecys and keep their head in the sand to reality
The irony of your first line is KILLING me. Thanks for the chuckle!
He will be the detriment to Roman Catholicism and should be excommunicated from the Roman Rite and be tried in the Church for heresy and unorthodoxy teachings.
Really? Can you give me an example of a heresy that Pope Francis has committed?
The heretics are those who reject the Vicar of Christ aka Pope Francis. He saved the Catholic Church because him being a Jesuit brings the walking the talk of Jesus. He’s truly the best Pope because its about time the world had a leader that can denounce the heresy of Reagonomics and the Tyranny of 21st Century Global Capitalism that has marginalized the poor who are at the forefront of Christianity and the Gospel.
We’ve had heretical popes before and the Holy Spirit protected the Church. The same protection will endure Pope Francis’ love of heresy.
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As a mother Iof a large family, I learned to ignore the bad and praise and give attention to what my children did that was good. Shouldn’t that be our focus as Catholics ? Surely that would give more honour to our Lord than allowing false media headlines to seduce us into bashing a pope who is trying to live the gospel
Pope Francis I saved the Catholic Church! I am Jewish and I can tell you its about time the Catholic Church elected a Jesuit who has philosophical policies that not only expose the Tea Party/MoxNews Religious Reichers for who they are. He has helped to bring back Christianity to its essencial roots and regather the disenfranchised who have unfortunately scapegoated Christianity’s Hypocrisy for Capitalism.
“The perfect type of fascist throughout recent centuries has been the Prussian Junker, who developed such hatred for other races and such allegiance to a military clique as to make him willing at all times to engage in any degree of deceit and violence necessary to place his culture and race astride the world. In every big nation of the world are at least a few people who have the fascist temperament. Every Jew-baiter, every Catholic hater, is a fascist at heart. The hoodlums who have been desecrating churches, cathedrals and synagogues in some of our larger cities are ripe material for fascist leadership.”–Henry Wallace NYTimes, The Danger of American Fascism
Somehow I don’t think Pope Francis would approve of your gross stereotypes of conservatives.
I have many Jesuit friends who absolutely agree with me. What they admire most with regards to the Jewish people is that we vote more in line with Christ than Religious Reichers. We believe in government having a role in protecting the people through progressive legislation. Do not forget my Catholic friends, America used to be a country for only White Male Protestant Slaveowners.
The Republican Party is no longer the Party of Ronald Reagan. Its clearly adopted the Tea Party Corporate Fascist agenda. This is your chickens coming home to roost after 40 years of the Nixon Southern Strategy which has lead to the most extreme historical revisionism in US history.
American Catholics must come to a realization: reject the Tea Party Nazis or repent and follow Pope Francis. I can tell you that even being Jewish I would follow Pope Francis the Vicar of Christ over any other heretic who thinks he knows better than the Pope.
So, I’m curious. Which American political party do you think best reflects Catholic social justice teaching?
Democrat not because its “left-wing” but its the only sane party left. The Republicans are SOO extreme they are Fascist. They used to be Reagan but thats Obama now clearly. Obama like Reagan didnt tolerate the David Dukes. But this Republican Party does…wtf?
Democrats are the party of Jesus. Democrats support Pope Francis I immigration reform.
So, tell me, how do you reconcile the Democrat party’s enthusiastic support of abortion, contraception, and homosexual acts with Catholic doctrine?
“The symptoms of fascist thinking are colored by environment and adapted to immediate circumstances. But always and everywhere they can be identified by their appeal to prejudice and by the desire to play upon the fears and vanities of different groups in order to gain power. It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice. It may be shocking to some people in this country to realize that, without meaning to do so, they hold views in common with Hitler when they preach discrimination against other religious, racial or economic groups (Social Conservatives). Likewise, many people whose patriotism is their proudest boast play Hitler’s game by retailing distrust of our Allies and by giving currency to snide suspicions without foundation in fact.”–Henry Wallace, The Dangers of American Fascism
Pope Francis: Government Has a Role in Addressing Inequality and Injustice
“I ask God to give us more politicians capable of sincere and effective dialogue aimed at healing the deepest roots—and not simply the appearances—of the evils in our world! Politics, though often denigrated, remains a lofty vocation and one of the highest forms of charity, inasmuch as it seeks the common good.”–Pope Francis
You either follow the Vicar of Christ Pope Francis I or your a heretic its that simple my friend. Republican Tea Party “Catholics” are an oxymoron. Your not a “Puritan” like the Southern Biblethumpers like Westboro Baptist Church who says “G-d hates Fags” “Jews killed Jesus” or the KKK who used to own slaves–YOUR CATHOLIC! Act like it stop being a Puritan with the social issues > economic reality!!
You may have your views of abortions, gay marriage, etc. but that should not be the “wedge issues” as Pope Francis clearly addresses. Remember when he said Catholics need to not interfere with the spiritual life of gays? He wants Catholics to focus on the Jesuit message of putting the poor > rich. Capitalism and its inherent sin of income inequality is by definition the greatest tyranny of our time as he pointed out.
Jesus Condemns the Pharisees and the Teachers of the Law of Moses
23 Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2 The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. 3 So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
RWW News: Beck Declares That “We Get Our Laws From The Laws Of Moses”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5YOUzYe9sg
You call the murder of over 50 million innocent children since 1973 a “wedge issue”? Democrats have aided in the killing of many more innocents than the Nazis ever did.
Pope Francis never called abortion a wedge issue. He merely said that Catholics shouldn’t focus on one issue at the expense of others. He has spoken out quite strongly against abortion.
Additionally, the prohibition of contraception and homosexual acts as disordered are infallible Catholic doctrines. Democrats celebrate both. How do you reconcile that?
What about the Democrat insistence on prohibiting the free exercise of religion? Does that bother you at all that they are forcing Catholics to pay for contraception and abortion?
Of course you have to pay for contraception and abortions just like your paying taxes. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars! Im not debating this considering Hitler banned abortions for his “Aryan Race” while killing the lgbt community…so issues do matter when put into context!! It scares me seeing the GOP/Tea Party adopt open Neo-Nazism.
If you dont like homosexual marriage? Dont get one! If you dont like abortion? Dont get one! “Be the change you wish to see in the world”–Ghandi!
Just work on being the best Catholic you can be thou shalt not judge thy neighbor. Live and let live as long as were a free and open democracy then we should be fine!
Corporations are not people! The day Hobby Lobby gets baptized by Jesus will be the day Catholics can be considered Republicans.
Until that day comes, Catholic Republicans are an oxymoron. There is nothing Catholic in supporting the death penalty (Islam), stoning of gays (Islam), outlawing abortion (Islam), social darwinism economics of corporations righting the laws > unions (islam), gun owners (nazis/kkk)…I mean where is the “universal” love in Republican “values”?
14 POINTS OF FASCISM
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism
Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media
Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security
Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together
Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected
Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment
Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections
Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).
Does any of this sound familiar? As America sinks deeper and deeper into corporate greed will this country continue to be a democracy by the people and for the people or will it be ruled by the few? Will the trinity of money, power and greed over come one of the greatest countries in the world? Only we, the people, can keep it free. SPEAK OUT AND LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN…ONLY BY SILENCE WILL WE BE DEFEATED!
So, you’re Protestant, then? Pope Francis teaches that abortion, contraception, and homosexual acts are all intrinsic evils. If you oppose him in this, then you are a dissenting Catholic and no better than those you decry. You can’t pick and choose which doctrines of the Church suit your fancy and ignore the rest. You can’t decry the fate of the illegal immigrant while dismissing the plight of the aborted child. It’s all or nothing.
No! Im more Catholic than you are since I only consider Jesuits real Catholics anyway. They overwhelmingly vote Democrat and were the greatest threat to the Nazis in Germany. Jesuits took an absolute oath to obey the Vicar of Christ > Satan Adolf Hitler. Simple logic. Now put into context:
Rand Hitler Paul seems perfect then for you. He wants to outlaw abortion, wipe out the lgbt community…”Catholic values” 😉
Be blessed you have a Jesuit Pope thank G-d!! Without the Jesuits Pope Francis is right Roman Catholicism would be swept away like a house of cards.
You need a Jesuit to challenge the Religious Reich Republican Party and its takeover of America! You need REAL Christians like the Jesuits that overwhelmingly support the Democrats, Obama, Pelosi, etc.
AND dont get me started with this picking and choosing with illegal and abortion. I CARE thats why I personally would never marry a women who would have an abortion. Im a male HOWEVER Im not going to allow the government to have WHITE PROTESTANT SLAVEOWNING MALES tell women what to do with their bodies. They deserve equal rights they are not subservient slaves! They know whats best and you know most would never abort anyway its a total wedge issue to sedduce Christians into the Republican Anti-Christ Nazi Party!
Im starting to think Communist Catholics I know at this point are the most Christian people Ive ever met in my life.
At least they have the guts to peacefully protest at Occupy Wall Street rallies while being mocked at by SS MoxNews Channel that thinks they are “lazy”.
What is “lazy” about protesting for a socialist democracy where the people have a say in their government and NOT CORPORATIONS? Pope Francis definitely supports Occupy Wall Street > Teabagging Puritans! They actually walk his talk of standing up to the Tyrannies of Capitalism! Amen!
Also “Capitalism”=Slavery! Its slavery to the Corporations. They are the plantation owners today. Look at sports its black men doing all the work for rich white racists! HELLO! I want to abolish Capitalism its destroying America and the PLANET!!
We need a Catholic New Deal! We need a higher minimum wage for low income workers. We need more government jobs! We need more restrictions on corporate abuses! We need socialism so we can all come together! We need to focus on actually walking the talk of Christ!
Protestantism=Nazism. I am a DEVOUT Catholic born and raised Jewish but Pope Francis is my inspiration to convert!!
Here is a Wikipedia learning session!!
The Protestant Reformation, and especially the English Reformation, brought new suspicions against the Jesuits, who were accused of “infiltrating” political realms and non-Catholic churches. In England, it was forbidden to belong to the Jesuits, under grave penalties, including the death penalty. Jesuitism is the term their opponents coined for the practices of the Jesuits in the service of the Counter-Reformation.[1]
The development of Jansenism in 17th-century France led to intra-church rivalries between Jesuits and Jansenists, and although the pro-papal Jesuits ultimately prevailed, it cost them dearly with regards to their reputation in the largely Gallican-influenced French Church.
Many anti-Jesuit conspiracy theories emerged in the 18th century Enlightenment, as a result of an alleged rivalry between the Freemasons and the pious Jesuits. Intellectual attacks on Jesuits were seen as an efficient rebuttal to the anti-masonry promoted by conservatives, and this ideological conspiracy pattern persisted into the 19th century as an important component of Frenchanti-clericalism. It was, however, largely confined to political elites until the 1840s, when it entered the popular imagination through the writings of the historians Jules Michelet and Edgar Quinetof the Collège de France, who declared “la guerre aux jesuites”, and the novelist Eugène Sue, who in his best-seller Le Juif errant depicted the Jesuits as a “secret society bent on world domination by all available means”.[2] Sue’s heroine, Adrienne de Cardoville, said that she could not think about Jesuits “without ideas of darkness, of venom and of nasty black reptiles being involuntarily aroused in me”.[3]
Jesuit conspiracy theories from earlier eras often focused on the personality of Adam Weishaupt, a professor of law at a Jesuit school who went on to found the Bavarian Order of the Illuminati. Weishaupt was accused of being the secret leader of the New World Order, and even of being the Devil himself.[citation needed] Augustin Barruel, a conservative Jesuit historian, wrote at length about Weishaupt, claiming that the Illuminati had been the secret promoters of the French Revolution.
Jesuit conspiracy theories found fertile soil in Imperial Germany, where anti-Jesuits saw the order as a sinister and extremely powerful organization characterized by strict internal discipline, utter unscrupulousness in choice of methods, and undeviating commitment to the creation of a universal empire ruled by the Papacy. Citing historian Friedrich Heyer’s metaphor of the specter of Jesuitism [Jesuitengespenst] and similar imagery from other authors, Róisín Healey writes: “The Jesuit of anti-Jesuit discourse had what might be called an uncanny quality: he was both subhuman and superhuman. Jesuits were allegedly so extreme in their submission to their order that they became like machines and, in their determination to achieve their goals, drew on powers unavailable to other men. The peculiar location of the Jesuit, at the boundaries of humanity, unsettled the producers and consumers of anti-Jesuit discourse. In this sense, the Jesuit specter haunted imperial Germany.”[4] Healy observes that “Feeling themselves haunted by the Jesuits, anti-Jesuits revealed themselves to be less rational than they believed.” Their discourse, with its “skewed” perception of reality, “resembled, in certain respects, the ‘paranoid style’ of politics identified by the American historian, Richard Hofstadter”.[5]
Anti-Jesuitism played an important part in the Kulturkampf, culminating in the Jesuit Law of 1872, endorsed by Otto von Bismarck, which required Jesuits to dissolve their houses in Germany, forbade members from exercising most of their religious functions, and allowed the authorities to deny residency to individual members of the order. Some of the law’s provisions were removed in 1904, but it was only repealed in 1917.[6]
In the 1930s, Jesuit conspiracy theories were made use of by the Nazi regime with the goal of reducing the influence of the Jesuits, who ran secondary schools and engaged in youth work. A propaganda pamphlet, “The Jesuit: The Obscurantist without a Homeland” by Hubert Hermanns, warned against the Jesuits’ “dark power” and “mysterious intentions”. Declared “public vermin” [Volksschädlinge] by the Nazis, Jesuits were persecuted, interned, and sometimes murdered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_conspiracy_theories
This proves my point! Republicans will turn on the Jesuits. What will Catholics do to stand up for the Jesuits if Rand Hitler Paul comes to power and outlaws Pope Francis and the Jesuits from challenging the dictates of the Tea Party Fascist Agenda!?!? Will you continue to bravo Rand Hitler Paul on banning abortion while he starves the poor!?! Will you be willing to convert to the Nazis and do as they say?!!? I WILL NEVER OBEY THE NAZIS!! THE JESUITS AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF THE PEOPLE IS MY OATH!!
DEMOCRACY IS BY DEFINITION CATHOLIC/UNIVERSAL! YOU EITHER LOVE YOUR UNIVERSAL NEIGHBOR OR YOUR WORSHIPPING SATAN/AKA THE “GOLDEN CALPH”/MONEY!! REPUBLICANS ARE NAZIS WHO WORSHIP MONEY AND HIDE BEHIND SOCIAL CONSERVATISM TO SEDDUCE MORE CHRISTIAN HERETICAL NAZIS.
THAT IS SATAN HE HAS FOOLED THE WORLD!! WAKE UP AND REPENT AND START FOLLOWING POPE FRANCIS/JESUITS AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT SUPPORTS THE “UNDERDOGS”. YOU HAVE TIME BE A PROUD CATHOLIC DEMOCRAT WHO WALKS THE TALK OF JESUS CHRIST AMEN!
Also –
“Don’t like slavery? Don’t own a slave. Don’t like child abuse? Don’t abuse a child. Don’t like rape? Don’t force anyone to have sex.” Etc.thisr arguments aound pretty dumb in that context, don’t they?
If you support abortion, you support the murder of innocent human beings. Just like the Nazis, oddly enough (who did support abortion for “undesirable” human beings).
Correct. BUT they banned it with regards to the Whites (like were seeing with the Republican Nazi South!). Im talking about gay marriage and abortion which are issues that Republicans have become flat out Nazi over. Stop trying to be eugenicists toward my lgbt friends and telling a women who YOU dont know about why she cant have an abortion!! Thats so puritan not Catholic!
Also context with abortion matters. Pope Francis clearly says the Tyranny of Capitalism > Abortion.
ITS CLEARLY DESTROYING THE WORLD OF 7 BILLION PEOPLE!! YOU WANT ALL OF US DEAD BECAUSE WE COULDNT STOP THE KOCH BROTHERS IN THEIR CAMPAIGN TO DENY CLIMATE CHANGE THAT EVEN POPE JOHN PAUL II KNOWS IS FACT! EVOLUTION IS FACT! CATHOLICS NEED TO ACCEPT SCIENCE NOT DENY IT LIKE HERETICAL PURITANS AND NAZI KKKERS!
The pope said that catholics should stop talking so much about abortion. He is diminishing the gravity of the murder of children. You are a bit naive in your understanding of this pope.
Actually, I’m happy to inform you that Pope Francis did NOT say what you think he said! You are listening to the media’s interpretation of what he said as opposed to what he actually said – which was that Catholics should not focus on one issue to the exclusion of all others, regardless of what issue (so it also applies to Catholics who, say, obsess about immigration reform while ignoring abortion). And PF has spoken out very strongly against abortion. I can provide quotes if you wish.
The Tea Party and Catholic social teaching don’t mix – See more at: http://www.uscatholic.org/teaparty#sthash.bZpTvAbw.dpuf
Tea Party Nazi Libertarian (Pink Floyd “The Wall”):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsMXvBYLfNE
Libertarian “Tea Party” Individualism = Free to individually starve, get sick, go broke and die, alone, ‘individually’, if you’re too “weak”, so nobody has to give a damn or have any responsibility to you, as a fellow citizen.
Nothing about Libertarians is pro-Liberty or pro-Individual except Liberty for the individual millionaires and billionaires, wealthiest top 10% protecting their ill gotten wealth and hoarding it while killing the Middle Class and weakening people so they barely hang on financially and either on the poverty line or below it so they’re poor, uneducated, fearful and demoralized but brainwashed with Alex Jones, Aaron Russo, Lou Dobbs and Ron Paul conspiracy propaganda to keep them suspicious of conspiracies everywhere.
Libertarians are “Anti-Financial Independence” by shackling people with debt, high prices, industry monopolies, oppression of workers’ rights (to reasonable pay and safe working conditions normally protected by regulations), anxiety, ill health and poverty in the name in “individual responsibility” and “individual liberty” (liberty to be “on your own” with zero Civil Rights protections to keep the wealthy and the corporations from exploiting your as cheap labor or no government enforced protections of YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS to be financially independent of corporate monopolies, high prices and a inhumane wages).
tl;dr
Just a word of advice — paragraph breaks are your friend.
k…did you watch the video seeing the parallel connection between “libertarians” and nazis? Catholics I know hate Nazis thats why they vote Democrat.
No, I didn’t watch it. Also, see here for why no Catholic should vote Democrat: http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2010/10/why-i-cannot-be-catholic-and-democrat.html
(One could also argue that no Catholic should vote Republican, also, but let’s limit the discussion to Democrats for now.)
Catholics are centrists right? If I had to choose between Reagan and Carter I would go with Reagan by definition because he is a better uniter. Obama vs Mormon Cult SS Mitt Romney? Obama! Obviously since he is a Christian and Romney is a Nazi Occultist…but beside the point Obama is clearly more Reagan since he is a better uniter than Mormon Cult SS Romney.
Catholics need to wake up and realize the Religious Reichers have conned you! Catholics are Obama. Catholics are Nancy Pelosi even Harry Reid. They are true men and women of character who have their heart for the common good. Republicans dont. They are Pharisees who put on a spectacle but are just Donald Trump fat cats–people who Jesus despised!!
Please note I am only trying to help you. I can tell you have a good heart and mean well with the morality issues. I get it it matters…but its the big picture Catholics need to pay attention to. Pope Francis is giving them what they need: “tough love”
“When Hitler attacked the Jews
I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned.
And when Hitler attacked the Catholics,
I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned.
And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists,
I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned.
Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church —
and there was nobody left to be concerned.” –Pastor Niemoller
NO RAND HITLER PAUL!! STAND WITH POPE FRANCIS I AND FIGHT AMERICAN FASCISM!!
From the CCC:
2303 Deliberate hatred is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil. Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. “But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.”97
Just FYI.
Fighting Fascism is not being violent its standing up against Satan’s army. Nazis are Satanists. Jesus stood up for the oppressed people, the homeless, the disenfranchised. “It is far easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven”–Yeshua
Even hating Fascists and Nazis is a sin, according to Jesus. Opposing their beliefs and actions is not the same as hating them. “But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.” – Yeshua
I dont hate Nazis I feel sorry for them because they are clearly going to hell if they dont repent.
Judging by the length of life the main Nazi criminals seem to have, they are putting things off as long as they can !
I’m late to this one, but what a terrific article!
Actually the Pope has not ruined the catholic church. Satan ruined it. Satan knew he could never abolish the church so he took it over. Rev 18:14 Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins,
So, your position is that the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church, and thus Jesus was a liar? I assume you are atheist, then?
Hes not an atheist its just disinfo. Please I can help you with your defense of Catholicism! The whore of babylon is Mecca. “Every Jew-baiter, every Catholic hater is a fascist at heart”–Henry Wallace, The Dangers of American Fascism
Who Jew baits? MUSLIMS/Nazis! Who Catholic hates? MUSLIMS/Nazis!
Atheists are not bad people seriously like the Pope said with them going to heaven. They will if they are good. Think about all the wonderful brave Communists who fought against the Nazis? They are polar opposites but there works prove their salvation. They walk more like Jesus than most Religious Reichers (Pharisees).
You do realize that is by definition Mecca she is the whore of Babylon. Mystery Babylon is Mecca. Hitler was a Muslim. Its easy to scapegoat the Catholics believe me I used to fear them being Jewish and then I saw the light meeting Jesuits who were wonderful people who vote Democrat and make fun of the Pharisee Republicans.
Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Mt 16: 18.
No, he has not and will not for he cannot.
The Church will never fall.
Defending Pope Francis by revealing misinterpretations of past Popes’s comments is hardly a defense.
I don’t need to defend Pope Francis, because he doesn’t need it. What needs defending is the concept of learning about Church teaching from the Pope instead of the MSM.
The true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ:
http://youtu.be/y4wx3DoFog8
All scripture taken from the King James Bible.
I don’t think so. He is amazing. He is breathing life into our Church!!! God bless him …in Jesus name. Amen!!! I love him. God loves us. …..so much… More than we can every know…God created all…God loves us ..more than we as human can ever know!!!! Thank you Lord for loving me so much!! I am your servant.
Can u say false prophet….. God does not change it says that in the bible… Which the pope must not read or he would drop to his knees with apologies for trying to change GODS LAW… Well GOD did tell us about the end and he warned us about the false prophets and the antichrist. Sodom and Gomora got destroyed because of all the sin that was there ppl open your eyes THE END IS HERE PLEASE CHOOSE CHRIST.. NOT THE POPE FOR HE IS A SINFUL MAN TRYING TO TAKE PPL TO HELL WITH HIM.
Ella, it’s not either/or, it’s both/and. I have chosen Jesus, who has given me His vicars on earth to teach in His name. Please see here: http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth
Surely the bible itself is your best source material. It is overflowing with examples that are not remotely worthy of a god, nevermind a benevolent one.
Such as?
Newsflash:
God
is
not
real.
Jesus
was
made
to
pacify
warring
jews
so
that
the
roman
empire
would
persist
God isn’t real lol.
And your proof of this is…?
The difference is that the media were actually distorting the words of the previous two popes. Francis needs no distortion for his fellow leftists–he’s more committed to Leftism than the Church.. He’s not our first bad pope and probably won’t be the last.. But let’s hope the next one is much more like Benedict XVI (having a heretic in the papacy is an extremely dangerous situation).
Bearing false witness against your neighbor is a sin, FYI. Pope Francis hasn’t said anything in opposition to Church teaching, let alone heretical. I’m sorry to hear that you have rejected Catholicism, though.
Let me guess.. You go to Novus Ordo and help decorate and prance around the altar like it’s a Bed, Bath and Beyond display and then you snatch at our Lord like he’s a piece of trailmix (if you even believe in the Real Presence)?
The Pope has made many heretical statements. It’s heretical to suggest that the proper, two thousand year old Mass is a fad and dangerous.
It’s heretical to suggest that everyone can get into heaven no matter how much they reject the Church. (JPII and BXVI constantly reminded people that they still have time to repent–this is quite a different thing than suggesting that offending our jealous God is no big deal and won’t ever matter.)
It’s heretical to teach people with your actions that the orthodox need to be persecuted and the baby murderers left alone and even celebrated.
You guys love him because you’re heretics.. It doesn’t matter if you’re the majority, that doesn’t change the truth. (Your belief that the majority decides the truth is yet more proof of your rampant heresy, including, but not limited to Leftism and Americanism.)
Pope Francis never said any of those things, Augustine, which I think you know since you neglected to provide proof (i.e., direct quotes in context from a reputable source). For example, it seems clear that you are ignorant of the difference between redemption and salvation: http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2013/05/pope-francis-knows-difference-between.html
I love both the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary Form of the Mass. When I have the opportunity, I visit this community: http://www.phoenixlatinmass.org/
I usually attend a very respectful, reverent OF mass as I happen to live right behind my parish. 🙂 With 5 kids and a full-time job, it’s a hectic schedule! I try to be respectful of our Lord in the Eucharist at Mass, and as a Lenten practice I’m going to try and attend Adoration more often.
I don’t know why you’re so angry, AT, but I’ll pray that you find peace and contentment during this Lenten season.
I’m angry because the American Church is full of heretics. And then people like you go after the orthodox and give a free pass to the baby murderers and rampant heretics who populate 90% of NO Masses.
And why do we need the NO Mass? The proper Mass is always more reverential and even when they’re equally reverential, the proper Mass is still much better.
The reason for the new Mass is that modern heretics want to pretend they’re great church fathers.. But the church fathers would be more strenuous in their denunciations of heretics and their co-dependent supporters like yourself.
Why was Christ angry when he saw the money changers’ tables?
How have I “gone after the orthodox,” AT? I AM part of the orthodox. I fully believe in everything taught by the Catholic Church, and defend that truth regularly.
The Church teaches that the OF mass is valid, and I submit to the teachings of the Church whether or not I believe the OF mass is “needed.” Why do you reject Church teaching in this regard?
You are not Christ, AT. You’re raging against the Church that He gave the authority to teach in His name, and the Church that He gave the authority to bind and loose. Do you think Jesus would be happy with your behavior and attitude toward your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, not to mention His Vicar?
You actually believe that the Mass that has emptied the Church is orthodox?
The fact that there is a pope who (fine I’ll tone it down a bit) verges on heresy and a small number of cardinals who vocally support it because it’s the trend of the time means that its orthodox?
Are you unaware that popes and cardinals have, in the past, often supported heresy only to be proven wrong, even if it was after they died?
You really think Christ wants you telling me I’m going to Hell?
I’ve never made any judgement on your eternal salvation, only spoken the truth.
AT, have you studied the history of the Church at all? The OF did not exist in 1054, when the Eastern Orthodox Church split off, or in 1571, when the Protestant Reformation started. Both of these events caused the Church to “empty.” Yet, She remains. I believe that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church, no matter what. I’m sorry you don’t share that belief.
Did you read my article at all, AT? I wrote about a Pope who died while in the act of committing adultery. So yes, I’m fully cognizant of the fact that popes and cardinals have sinned. They have never taught heresy as doctrine, though, so Christ’s truth prevails.
I never said you were going to Hell, AT. Can you quote where you thought I said such a thing?
I’m alarmed at your propensity to commit libel. It certainly doesn’t speak well for your credibility.
I never claimed you’ve made any judgement about my eternal salvation, but you have certainly told lies. For example, “And then people like you go after the orthodox and give a free pass to
the baby murderers and rampant heretics who populate 90% of NO Masses.”
I don’t give a free pass to baby murderers or rampant heretics. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary? If not, will you please apologize for bearing false witness?
And this: “You go to Novus Ordo and help decorate and prance around the altar like it’s a Bed, Bath and Beyond display and then you snatch at our Lord like he’s a piece of trailmix (if you even believe in the Real Presence)?”
I do attend an OF mass but the rest of that screed is false. Again, can you provide any evidence to the contrary? If not, can you please apologize for bearing false witness?
A pope hasn’t spoken infallibly and preached heresy.
You haven’t heard of the pope who excommunicated a future saint and was later labeled to have been preaching heresy by the next pope? (Papal infallibility didn’t come around until the 1400s.)
I’m saddened by your intense hypocrisy and pedantry. I wish you would actually learn about the history of the Church instead of making uneducated, aggressive statements about it like so many “modern” Catholics.
By the way, where did you get your history degree? I graduated from the 12th ranked department in the world and my senior thesis was on Constantine and the Early Church.
Papal infallibility has existed since Pentecost, Augustine. That is a teaching of the Church. Which pope are you talking about?
Hypocrisy? Pedantry? Why do you make these accusations? What have I said that is hypocritical? Why do you say I am obsessed with rules? Can you clarify?
Can you give me your full name so I can verify your credentials? It’s odd that you claim to be such a learned historian, and yet you don’t seem to know anything about Church history. If you prefer, you can send them to me privately at my personal e-mail: jrwahlund at gmail dot com.
So all the Northern European heretics were confused when they explicitly stated that their reason for leaving the Church was the formalization of papal infallibility?
Of course, as orthodox Catholics, you and me, we believe that when the Pope spoke authoritatively he was speaking infallibly from the time Christ founded the Church, even if it hadn’t been formalized by a council of the Church.
Pope Francis has yet to speak infallibly and won’t (thankfully). He’s not a theologian, he’s a rambler. Even BXVI, the greatest theologian in the world, never spoke ex cathedra.
It’s odd that you’re so ignorant and think that calling other people ignorant will cover that up. You can look up anything I’ve told you. (Perhaps the problem is that you think if you haven’t heard it yet, it must not be true.)
Not sure what specific group of heretics you’re referring to, but many people leave the Church once dogma they don’t like is proclaimed infallibly. That’s why the Church does so, to make it clear that certain teachings (which have been taught since the Church’s inception) will never change. Everything old is new again.
I said you were ignorant of Church history, AT. I never said you were ignorant, personally. If this is how you misinterpret people it’s not at all surprising that you severely misunderstand the words of Pope Francis.
You’re the one making the claim so the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence to support your claim. That’s how debate works.
If you’re too lazy to look up the Pope’s statements that’s your problem. The rest of the world heard the comments he made about people who attend the proper Mass being faddish, when he is the king of the fad chasers.
You keep trying to teach me, but you don’t know anything. You seem to be quite a pedant, like most of the uneducated heretics who attend NO.
Again, “by their fruits, you will know them”.. NO churches are full of old ladies and people who don’t even believe in the Real Presence, because they teach disrespect of the Church and self-reverence.
Those problems do not exist at the proper Mass because it teaches reverence of Christ.
I’ll pray for you that you get over the real fad and learn to love the tradition of the Church!
On the contrary, if you’re too dishonest to cite sources to prove your claims, that’s your problem. Since you are unable to do so, I can logically conclude that your claim is baseless and fraudulent. Good to know.
Why do you say I am a pedant? Because I believe in the Church and all She teaches? I thought that was being Catholic.
My experience with OF churches is the opposite of what you describe.
These problems do exist, and I think you’re in denial because I cited several examples of where they do. Also, see here: http://scottericalt.com/why-latin-mass-onlyists-are-destroying-the-latin-mass/
You’re in my prayers as well.
[Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’, Italian ‘moda’]. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”
Thank you for actually providing something resembling a source. Since you did not provide a sourcelink, I Googled the quote and read its history and context. Apparently it’s a third hand report of something Pope Francis might have said in an informal setting, so I can’t say that I pay it too much heed. At any rate, I think Fr. Z has the right perspective on it: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/02/pope-francis-remarks-about-extraordinary-form-and-people-who-want-it/
What are you talking about? It’s a direct quote from the Archbishop. Your claim is that the Archbishop is lying?
Everyone is just fabricating all of these statements that verge on heresy?
You’re one of those NO Catholics who, no matter what the pope says, tells us that we’re all confused and just forget about it.
I never EVER had this problem with Saint JPII or BXVI!
I am the biggest supporter of the papacy that I know, but that doesn’t mean I need to pretend that every pope is a good pope.
God bless you!
The Archbishop told someone at Vatican Radio what Francis allegedly said. Since I wasn’t there, and since there is not a written transcript of the conversion they had, and since the report of the remarks have been translated to English from a different language, I have no way of knowing if it’s accurate. That’s why I deal with what Pope Francis has actually said, and not what he has only allegedly said.
But I really don’t see anything insulting or worrisome about his comments if they are, in fact, accurate. A Jesuit who prefers the OF? Shocker! He didn’t say that the EF is wrong or illicit or evil or that it should be abolished. He also said that those with a love for the EF should be respected. So, not quite seeing what the problem is here, and Fr. Z agrees.
My obedience is to the Vicar of Christ, whoever he may be. Jesus gave us a man who had publicly denied Him three times as our first Pope, so I can’t say that I’m too worried about Pope Francis. 🙂
I am obedient to Pope Francis. I haven’t left the Church and I believe the teachings of the Church.
Jesuits were once great men, but they do more harm than good now. Why doesn’t Pope Francis have a word to say about the rampant and unrepentant heresy in his own order?
St. Ignatius would discipline or kick out most current Jesuits.
If you don’t trust the Archbishop to tell you what Jose Bergoglio said then you must believe he’s been a mute since he’s become pope, because there is no one more trustworthy as to his words than a like-minded Archbishop.
I think it’s just over-the-top offensive that such a fad chaser would accuse those committed to the two thousand year old Mass of being faddish.
I understand it has changed, but the same Mass changed extremely slowly over two millennia.. No one EVER had the gall to think they could completely change the whole thing overnight.. IT wreaks of Satan’s kind of pride.
Your statements thus far are not one of someone who is obedient to the Holy Father.
What statement did I make that wasn’t obedient to the Church?
You put the pope ahead of Christ’s Church? In my eyes we only listen to the pope, because Christ gave him the keys and a vision to go to Rome.
That doesn’t mean I’m not free to dislike the current pope and a majority of what he says. Luckily for me the chance that he will speak infallibly is as close to zero as possible so I won’t have to disobey the teachings of the Church in any way in order to not like Jose Bergoglio.
Um, all of your claims that the OF is evil and horrible? Or maybe bearing false witness against your neighbor? That’s not in keeping with the teaching of the Church.
It’s not either the Church or the Pope, AT. It’s both/and. If you love one, you respect the other. It’s that simple. AT the very least, the Catechism instructs us to be charitable to others:
“To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way: “Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.” (CCC 2477-2478)
You should send a letter to Pope Francis about being charitable to those who attend the proper Mass. I don’t think God would like him persecuting the most faithful, because he’s embarrassed about his heretical beliefs.
The Church and the pope are quite different. St. Peter denied Christ three times. Do we have to deny Christ? Wouldn’t it be to disrespect St. Peter otherwise?
Christ leads the Church. He made promises and gave ultimate doctrinal authority to the pope. He never promised that everything every pope said would be true and he didn’t even promise that they would all be good guys. He gave him authority, that’s it. I do not deny any teaching of the Church, spoken authoritatively by any pope.
Most people at NO Masses, on the other hand, do deny many teachings of the Church. Why don’t you spend your time educating them about the heresy they’ve fallen into while attending NO Masses?
I didn’t read his comments as uncharitable at all, if they are in fact accurate.
We need to love St. Peter as our brother in Christ, and praise God that he repented of his denial of Christ!
I do spent my time educating fallen-away Catholics, etc. That’s the purpose of my blog articles here, as well as my personal blog. But again, it’s not either I educate fallen-away Catholics or I educate anti-OF Catholics, it’s both/and. 🙂
They were extremely uncharitable.
I’m not sure if what you’re doing is called education.
I do love Pope Francis and I pray for him everyday!
St. Peter pray for us all!!
You’ve got an awfully funny way of showing love, if that’s the case.
Does Christ not love us when he tells us we’re sinners in need of salvation?
This is similar to the homosexuality argument. You don’t love people suffering from homosexual perversion by starting a parade to celebrate their sin.
You also don’t love someone who is preaching nonsense by pretending what they’re preaching is wise.
Christ doesn’t show love for us by committing libel all over the Internet.
And you’re not committing libel by falsely accusing me of committing libel?
God bless you Ms. Wahlund! I thank God for your faith and the good work that you’re doing with this website.
St. Augustine, pray for us! St. Thomas Aquinas, pray for us! St. Mary Magdalene, pray for us! St. Francis pray for us!
It’s not libel if the accusation is true. For example, you committed libel against Pope Francis when you accused him of saying that all atheists will go to heaven, which he did not say – instead, the confusion stems from the fact that you apparently don’t understand the difference between redemption and salvation.
I said that he suggested that it doesn’t matter if you go to church or not, because God will save us no matter what, and that’s dangerous since our souls are at stake.
You accused me of spreading libel all over the Internet, so even if I granted that your one accusation is true, which I don’t, you’d still be committing libel by accusing me of doing it constantly. (As long as you don’t have me put to death, you can libel me all you want by the way! You’re free to make mistakes.)
Would you consider removing the log in your own eye?
False. You said, “It’s heretical to suggest that everyone can get into heaven no matter how much they reject the Church.” Source: https://catholicstand.com/pope-francis-has-single-handedly-destroyed-catholicism/#comment-1273218495
You just committed libel AGAIN, because Pope Francis also never said or suggested that it doesn’t matter if you go to church or not because God will save you no matter what.
What have I said that isn’t true?
He did so suggest that. He goes after the orthodox and says “who am I to judge” and celebrates Notre Dame, aka Baby Murder University. I try not to read him because I don’t want to fall into heresy but I’ve heard from reliable sources what he’s suggested.
You say I’ve committed libel, but I’ve only spoken the truth about what Pope Francis has suggested. You should seriously consider removing the log in your own eye.
he has never suggested such a thing, and the fact that you cannot provide proof of your claim is more evidence that he did not. If you have heard from reliable sources (of which Rorate Caeli is not one) that Pope Francis allegedly did these things, then provide your evidence. And stop claiming I have a log in my eye when all I ask is that you back up your accusations with evidence.
If you don’t accept RC as a source, you’re obviously obsessed with lying to yourself that whatever you believe is ok and anyone who supports orthodoxy is guilty of some sin.
Please tell me what’s wrong with being committed to orthodoxy.
Are you seriously suggesting that you haven’t heard the “who am I to judge” comment?
If the Pope can’t judge what is right and wrong, then who can?
(You do know that pro-abortion politicians are now using his words to justify their support of baby murder?)
This is the problem with Novus Ordo. It makes everyone believe that whatever they like is the true definition of orthodoxy and it makes them hate real orthodox folk like the people at RC.
Nothing is wrong with being committed to orthodoxy. But if you were truly committed to orthodoxy you wouldn’t be so eager to bear false witness against the pope.
The Pope has spoken out strongly against abortion, so if pro-aborts are using his words to justify abortion, it shows how ignorant they are of what Pope Francis has said about it. Why are you blaming him for the ignorance and malice of those who support abortion?
RC has demonstrated time and time again that they have no interest in promoting the truth, but rather promoting their own agenda even if they have to obfuscate the truth to do it. Pope Fracis had barely been elected when they declared him a heretic. The lost all respect I might have had for them when they pulled that stunt, and their eagerness to hide Michael King’s financial malfeasance at Fisher-More College by falsely proclaiming that Bp. Olsen hates the Tridentine mass is even more reason to distrust them.
I see you have not yet provided evidence to support your claims against Pope Francis. I encourage you to read what the catechism says about lying and calumny.
I encourage you to remove the log in your own eye.
You’re a hypocrite and you’re the one who is pretending that her own quaint preferences are orthodoxy and anyone who disagrees with her is a this and a that and guilty of every kind of blasphemy.
(It’s typical for people who are embarrassed of their heresy to accuse others to try to get the focus off of themselves.)
All of the articles I’ve referred to are well known–so it’s you who is committing libel by accusing me of committing libel when I’m referring directly to published statements made by the current pope.
Why are JPII’s and BXVI’s words immune to being used in support of heresy? Why was it impossible to turn their words to support heresy, but it’s so easy with Pope Francis’?
You do seem to think that Catholicism is about getting on the majority side and figuring out who you can persecute.
Why should the children pay for King’s supposed malfeasance? What does the proper Mass have to do with the running of a college? Listen to yourself. You’re suggesting that we should hold the proper Mass hostage over your ideological and political differences with your perceived enemies?
Also, there you go being hypocritical again. There is no proof of King’s malfeasance, so far only unsubstantiated libel from the disgruntled professor, which you have repeated here.
And why does the extreme commitment to orthodoxy of the Fisher More kids frighten you so much, but the rampant heresy, apostasy, and even outright support of baby murder at Novus Ordo Masses everywhere not even bother you?
(You do realize that St. Fisher and St. More both died for the proper Mass you’re now trying to help others remove from their namesake college?)
btw, the existence of the SSPX proves that not everyone who loves the EF is in obedience to the Church. IMO, they’re just as bad as the alleged heretics who attend OF masses.
We’re addicted to orthodoxy, the ancient, proper Mass and Christ’s teachings. Pope Francis and all his NO minions are addicted to the fifty year old fad and being right and they seem to get high from persecuting the orthodox while ignoring the rampant heretics. (And that’s when Jose isn’t going around telling everyone how humble he is.)
Thank you for your prayers! Prayers to God, even from heretics, are always a good thing! (I used to be a heretic and before that an apostate so I know all about the game!)
We’re all part of the same Church, AT, and we’re all brothers and sisters in Christ. Satan sows division, not Jesus. And yes, prayer to God is very efficacious!
Yes we are! Heretics are a part of the Church every bit as much as the orthodox. That doesn’t mean we need to start listening to heretics!
Satan has used the NO Mass to sow quite a bit of division and heresy. The proper Mass was immune to that kind of thing for fifteen hundred years and still is.
He didn’t use the OF mass to sow heresy. He used the people who hijacked the OF mass to sow heresy. Big difference. If the EF has been immune to that kind of thing, and still is, how do you explain the current situation with Fisher-More College? http://scottericalt.com/why-latin-mass-onlyists-are-destroying-the-latin-mass/
Why do you make so many accusations and then you’re outraged at being accused?
What accusations have I made?
That I’m ignorant of Church history and risking Hell if I refuse to call the NO Mass proper and support every rambling of Jose Bergoglio.
I don’t claim to know everything, but I know that Christ said “by their fruits, you shall know them”.
Since a majority of Catholics now support abortion and same-sex marriage, do you believe those actions to be graces as well and I’m going to Hell if I don’t call baby murder and homosexual perversion orthodoxy?
As Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI has said, truth is not determined by majority vote. Abortion and homosexual acts are intrinsic evils and grave sins. That is what the Church teaches, and that is what I believe.
Well I agree with you that the NO Mass isn’t invalid (just as an SSPX Mass isn’t invalid, but that doesn’t mean I’ll start supporting Holocaust denying bishops)..
I’ve just never heard anyone make a compelling argument for the existence of the NO Mass, except “that’s what a majority of people like”.
It’s so insulting to hear Pope Francis call people who support the proper Mass faddish, when he’s made his entire career out of appeasing the majority by giving them whichever fad they desired.
I don’t see how a preference for the unreverential, easier Mass is any different than a preference for “population control” or “equality” in this context (even though there are powerful cardinals who support both).
Of course abortion is a clear evil, but should we not even discuss the evil effects of the NO Mass? Should we put our heads in the sand the way leftists do about baby murder?
An OF mass is both valid and licit, however, whereas an SSPX mass is valid but illicit. I’ve never heard anyone make a compelling argument for the existence of the duck-billed platypus but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a valuable function in the world. My heart was opened to the truth of Catholicism by a beautiful, glorious, reverent OF Mass (Basilica of St. Mary Easter Vigil, Easter 2003), so that’s one good reason for it, IMO. 🙂
Can you substantiate the claims you make against Pope Francis? You keep claiming he said all these awful things but you don’t provide any evidence. Can you link to his statements on vatican.va where he allegedly said these things so I can read his words in context?
Here is how it is different: the Church teaches that the OF mass is valid and licit, therefore it’s not sinful to prefer it (just like the EF mass is valid and licit, so it’s not sinful to prefer it). One who supports contraception and/or abortion as a means of population control or gay marriage as a means of equality is supporting intrinsic evil, so it’s sinful to prefer either or both of those things.
I don’t think that the OF mass has evil effects. I think that people who are trying to hijack the OF mass to promote their own agenda are the ones promulgating the evil effects, just like the EF mass can be hijacked to promulgate evil effects — or pretty much anything in the Church.
I am 100% pro-life, without exception, and if you read my past CS articles (as well as my personal blog: http://a-star-of-hope.blogspot.com/), you will see that I do not have my head in the sand re: abortion. Why do you assume that I do?
You haven’t heard the Pope’s statement calling people who attend the proper Mass faddish?
I’m glad that you were brought into the Church, even if the Mass that brought you could have been more reverential.
It’s a numbers game.. The heresy of the NO Mass has pushed far more people away than it has brought in and I suspect you would have been won over by the presence of Christ even if it had been a proper Mass.. I’m not trying to say that NO isn’t a real Mass, just that there is absolutely no reason for it except to make “modern” people feel self-important.
Again, I’m not calling the NO Mass itself evil. I think the intrinsic evil part comes in the way that people use it.
Heretics are a lot more likely to commit abortion than the orthodox.
Can you provide a link from vatican.va to this alleged statement so I can read the Pope’s words in context, AT?
The mass that brought me into the church was incredibly reverential. It was beautiful and glorious and brought tears to my eyes.
This is what you don’t seem to get. It’s not the OF mass that has pushed people away at all. It’s the people who have hijacked the OF mass to push their own agenda, the “spirit of Vatican II folks” who have never actually read the Council documents for themselves. It’s sin and Satan who have pushed people from the Church.
When you blame the OF mass for what Satan has done, you’re playing right into his hands.
If you want to know why the OF was implemented, why not read the document that explains why? http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html
You’ll notice that the proper Mass is immune to being hijacked by heretics.
I’m glad the Mass that converted you was reverential.. My points still stand. Most NO Masses aren’t reverential. You would have been converted by the proper Mass just the same.. It was the Truth, the Logos, that converted you.. It strengthens my faith in Christ to hear yet another story that he speaks to people in all places, even outside of Mass, if they’ll only listen.
The EF is immune to hijacking? Um, not quite. See: the SSPX, the Old Catholic Church in America, Mel Gibson, Fisher-More College, etc.
Most NO masses aren’t reverential? That’s odd, because I’ve been Catholic for over 10 years, and I’ve seldom been to one that isn’t (and yes, I attend Mass every Sunday and HDO unless sick or something). So, that hasn’t been my experience at all.
I encourage you to listen to what Pope Benedict said in Summorum Pontificum: “There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the Liturgy growth and progress are found, but not a rupture.”
ST. MALACHY
Good thing that prophecy has been debunked, eh? http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=50051
I’M SORRY TO TELL YOU BUT THE TIME OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC COLLAPSE IS NEAR… ROME AND THE VATICAN WILL BE LITERALLY DESTROYED BY DEMOLITION EXPERT! AND THE CATHOLIC FAITHFUL WILL SOON BECOME EVANGELICALS….
Don’t be sorry. I enjoy a good joke! 🙂 Thanks for the chuckle.
Are you still sticking to this as he keeps attacking Catholicism in every statement and proving himself to be a Lutheran?
Really? Do tell. I’ve yet to hear of Pope Francis saying anything that contradicts Catholic teaching. Can you give me an example?
you are scum, you are filth, you are vile, you are wanting a return to pope julius the III, pope paul the III, pope john XII, pope benedict IX, pope stephen VII, pope alexander VI, pope boniface VIII, pope leo X, pope urban II, pope sergius II, or any number of other popes that I am sure you would prefer that truly ruined peoples lives, many many people. You are such scum, filth, nothing but filth