Well, here we are in the 21st century Catholic Church. We have survived all of the liturgical innovations brought to us by the “spirit of Vatican II,” including clown masses, balloon masses, puppet masses, homemade banners, horrible liturgical music (Sons of God, anyone?), and somewhat-less-than-awe-inspiring architecture for new churches. For sure, Vatican II was a great Holy Spirit-inspired Church Council, and its sixteen documents are blueprints for a great future of the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church of Jesus Christ. But what the liberals inside the Church told us that the council was all about (remove those statues, no more Marian devotion, no more Latin, no more rosaries, build new age labyrinths, social work taking precedence over Catholic theology, etc.) was poppycock. The St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI generation of priests are in the process of fixing all of those misconceptions, thank God!
The purpose of this article is to address one of the last mistaken beliefs about the Church from the previous century. It is the misguided belief in some parishes that the Catholic Church is not about being militant in the fight against Satan, but rather, the Catholic Church is all about being “nice.” The purpose of a church isn’t to smile with us while we are on the way to hell; rather, it’s to get us to stop sinning so that we can go to heaven. We are the Church Militant down here on earth after all, not the Church Wimps!
Sadly, some Catholics have fallen into this fluff-trap. Mass attendance is a fraction of what it once was fifty years ago, and in my humble opinion, it’s because of poor catechesis from the pulpit, especially about the evil of sin. We hardly ever hear stirring sermons about overcoming the evils of adultery, stealing, fornication, pornography, artificial birth control, abortion, or homosexuality. Priests want to be liked as much as the next guy, and so sometimes we hear lots of forgettable sermons about uninteresting niceties. But this approach is not what the Church Militant Saints taught, and it certainly is not what the Bible teaches.
The Saints
St. Bernardine of Siena once said this about sodomy. Notice that he is not judging anyone, but rather, he is condemning the sin. This distinction is lost on so many people today – hate the sin, love the sinner:
“No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God….. Such passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follows reason, but furor…. Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is.”
St. Bernardine was right on the money, as we see so many angry homosexuals today, who not only threaten people who disagree with them, but who get them thrown out of a job for having traditional values. Tolerance is certainly not one of their traits. St. Bernardine was right to warn us about the effects of this sin.
The Blessed Virgin Mary said this at Fatima, a private revelation for sure, but a Church-approved one:
“More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”
And that was in 1917, almost one hundred years ago. Today, in this age of anything goes and internet porn, how much truer is her statement now! I don’t think I have ever heard this statement repeated from the pulpit one time in my entire life.
St. John Chrysostom, the golden-mouthed Archbishop of Constantinople in the fourth century, once declared the following:
“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.”
Where have you gone, Archbishop Chrysostom? Anybody who preached like this today would bring back thousands of lost souls. These are the kinds of sermons that stir the hearts of parishioners, like a rousing political speech before an election. And it is certainly a sermon that wouldn’t be forgotten five minutes after it’s preached.
The Bible
The Bible also has examples of admonishing sinners:
St. John the Baptist, the greatest man born of woman according to Christ, in Matthew 11, warned Herod about his fate, in Matthew 14: 3-4:
“Now Herod had arrested John, bound him, and put him in prison on account of Herodias, the wife of his brother Philip for John had said to him, “It is not lawful for you to have her.””
So, if the greatest man born of woman can admonish Herod in order to try and save him, cannot we today do the same? Or should we just mind our own business and let sinners fall into hell? St. John the Baptist lost his head for doing this, and we might lose our jobs if we speak out today. Is it worth it? Warning a person of mortal sin (The Church calls this “admonishing the sinner, and it is classified as a spiritual work of mercy) is not now, nor has it ever been, “judging” the sinner. Only God can do that at his death. But we certainly can warn people of impending doom if they don’t repent. G.K. Chesterton once said that only living things swim against the current, while dead things just float along with it.
St. Paul once said, in 1 Corinthians 5:5:
“You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.”
St. Paul is actually telling his followers to excommunicate an evil person from the church, for his own good. Paul is saying that once this apostate finds out about Satan’s false kingdom, then he will come back to the true Kingdom of God, the Church of Jesus Christ. Lots of us sinners have found this out the hard way, albeit without being excommunicated, but through our own sinful nature.
Jesus, in Matthew 23:33-36, warns the scribes and the Pharisees about the impending doom coming upon Jerusalem for their abandonment of God, even calling them serpents:
“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna? Therefore, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the righteous blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.”
The scribes and Pharisees were so evil that their punishment includes the guilt for all of the righteous blood spilled since the murder of Abel! This came to pass with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The lesson here is that Jesus Himself believed in admonishing sinners in the boldest terms.
Summation
Admonishing the sinner is not “judging” the sinner. Paul tells is in 1 Corinthians 4:3 that he doesn’t even judge himself (something everyone going around saying “I’m saved, are you?” should take to heart).
So let’s all start being the Church Militant, and start imitating the saints with true evangelization, which has always included speaking up and admonishing (NEVER judging) the sinner. Helping people get into heaven sometimes includes overturning tables in our own temples (bodies), as well as in our neighbor’s! Father Manning, my parish priest a long time ago, once said during a sermon, loudly, “GOD DOESN’T WANT GOOD PEOPLE. HE WANTS SOLDIERS FOR CHRIST!” And that is exactly what we became at Confirmation!
205 thoughts on “We, The Church Militant”
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Amen, brother! I needed that thought-provoking encouragement today. Thanks Ray
Great article Ray. There are many Saints that were concerned about the conversion of sinners. Saint Teresa of Avila was one and so many more.
I do like the Mass said in English though. I think it’s important for people to understand the words. God bless.
“ Mass attendance is a fraction of what it once was fifty years ago, …”
I believe you are too young to understand this phenomena but very naive in thinking hell and brimstone sermons are going to bring them back in. It is way more complicated than that.
If you Google (Wikipedia) St.Bernadine of Siena, it documents his virulent anti Semitism to
the point where he wanted Jews isolated from society and the human community where they
lived. He is said to have been a major domo associated with the persecutions of late medieval Christian Europe. He called for homosexuals and witches to be burned at the stake. His mantra centered around sodomy, gambling and usury. What we understand about the effects
of dysfunctional family life today is how it may resonate in psychological ways: adversarial behaviors, neurosis, autistic like fixations. This saint was abandoned by his family at a young age and he became somewhat extreme and very controversial in his time.
St John Chrysostom ( Wikipedia ) His father died early and he was raised by his mother.
He lived in extreme asceticism and became a hermit in about 375; he spent the next two
years continually standing, scarcely sleeping, and committing the Bible to memory. As a consequence of these practices, his stomach and kidneys were permanently damaged and poor health forced him to return to Antioch.[16] Around 405, Chrysostom began to lend
moral and financial support to Christian monks who were enforcing the emperors’ anti-Pagan laws, by destroying temples and shrines in Phoenicia and nearby regions.[28]
If you read the beginning of Matt 23 you will see that Jesus was talking about the hypocrisy and pride of the Pharisees, their putting heavy burdens on the the people (tithing and rituals)
their wanting to be noticed and have first places at tables – pride. He talked about them straining out gnats and swallowing camels – hypocrisy. Jesus knew why Jerusalem would be
destroyed. Pride. The zealots thought they could stop the most powerful country in the known world – Rome. In the end it fell because of politics.
Yes, St. John challenged Herod – no less than the brave soul who stood in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square in China. Few are called to that level of bravery.
My personal opinion about your reference to St Paul – in this case –is colored by the fact
that it is possible St Paul never forgave himself for the death of St Stephan who was likely a contemporary and he may have been present -or the many people he did persecute in the name of personal fanaticism. He was a hard man who led a hard life
And this is what your post is about – hardness. The term ‘soldier on ‘ means to pick up your cross and walk as best as one can. Someone shouting innuendos about your life will not win souls. Pope Francis is taking the right tack by focusing on situations, the person and where they are at. I do understand your concern. History will adjudicate this risky social trend and
if it fails there will be righteous pushback and once again persecution. Seems like an endless
cycle, this human sexuality war.
St. Bernadine errs but was correct that sodomy is grave sin but his calling it the worst sin is the opposite of St. Thomas’ whole and very rational hierarchy of virtue and sin. For Aquinas, the relative gravity of a sin is denominated by the height of the virtue it attacks. Sexual sins by definition cannot be as grave ( though mortal) as those sins which attack the theological virtues…Faith, Hope and Charity.
Here’s Aquinas then on the worst sin:
Summa Theologica 2nd of the 2nd Part.,
ques.34, art.2
On the contrary, The best is opposite to the worst, according to the Philosopher (Ethic. viii, 10). But hatred of God is contrary to the love of God, wherein man’s best consists. Therefore hatred of God is man’s worst sin.
Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is.
The person who said this (St. Bernardine of Siena) should not be considered to represent the followers of Jesus of Nazareth. Instead, he should be looked at as a misguided religious zealot prone to resort to hyperbole to spread his homophobia and that of the Church.
‘This vice disturbs the intellect….’
Is that what you think? Or do you think it has to be true because a homophobic saint said it?
‘Homophobia’ – the word being used properly – regards an irrational fear. Bernadine’s writings certainly do not reflect an irrational mind.
The Church’s condemnation of sodomy or any homosexual act is in fact irrational as are many religious taboos. I think people know what people mean when they call Catholics “homophobic”. It is an irrational fear of sorts.
My brother in law is a homosexual, and I do not fear him in any way. I pray for him to leave his lifestyle, out of love for him, not out of hatred. He, on the other hand, hates his own family for not acknowledging his “marriage” to his boy friend.
As well he should. My stepbrother and my son are homosexuals and it doesn’t make one bit of difference as to how I regard them.
So there we have it. Bill S thinks that hate is a good thing…
If I were gay and you told me that you love me but hate my lifestyle, I would be justified in hating you.
The difference between you and Catholics, Bill, is that we don’t feel hate is ever justified. You have been well programmed by the media. That’s why they call their news show PROGRAMS….
I think it’s ok to hate. I hate Islamist jihadists. I make no apology for hating them.
You can certainly hate what they do….
…and I can hate them and be honest about it.
HATRED KILLED THE SON OF GOD
God Himself came into this world
to share the life of us, His creatures
the scroll of the Lord got unfurled
He showed us His heavenly features
But we treated Him so hateful
so arrogant and so defiant
with a behavior so ungrateful
refusing to be anything but compliant
Although he came to save us
from the gates and fires of Hell
we scourged Him calling Him a cuss
we crucified Him and said “farewell”
Though we don’t deserve Your compassion
Your Love and Mercy overcomes it all
You keep acting in a persevering fashion
to have us perform well over the long haul.
Thank You Jesus for saving us and setting us free from the bondage of satan and the fires of Hell.
I realize all too well that it’s up to us to accept or reject this freedom by accepting or rejecting You.
I love You Jesus, don’t let me ever go astray.
Rita Biesemans, Good Friday April 18 2014
you “think” well God gave us a FREE WILL to accept Him or to REJECT Him but don’t blame Him for the results
Our Lord Christ Jesus commands us to love our enemies. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This Gospel teaching is so inclusive, open-minded, & good but also hard to follow. But your Atheistic beliefs, Bill S, drive you to hate fellow human beings (made in God’s Image)? Hate of others has been the way of human history for far too long. I prefer the Way of Christ Jesus, Bill S. There’s something new & fresh: love your enemies. Love the Lord your God, love your neighbor. Hate sin, love sinners.
But your Atheistic beliefs, Bill S, drive you to hate fellow human beings
There just are people that everyone should hate. Islamic jihadists for example. ISIS, Hamas, Taliban, Boko Haram, etc. Christian fundamentalists in Uganda who persecute homosexuals. Vladimir Putin. The leader of North Korea. Hitler, Stalin, Charles Manson, pedophiles.
Only God the Creator has the right to say who exists & who doesn’t, humans have no right to even have the desire.
It is perfectly reasonable to wish that islamic religious fanatical terrorists did not exist. Why do you think we are bombing them?
There are plenty of people in this world without whom the world would be a better place to live. I have no problem desiring that they simply not be there.
For you have heard that it is said : love thy neighbor but hate your enemy.
But I, Jesus tell you : Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, treat well those who hate you and pray for those who offend and persecute you”
AMEN to that Ray.
“For you have heard that it is said : love thy neighbor but hate your enemy.”
But I, Jesus tell you : Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, treat well those who hate you and pray for those who offend and persecute you”
Love your enemies
There is nothing wrong with hating our enemies but even if Russia would become our enemy, the Russian people themselves might not be our enemies. But it is perfectly normal to hate Putin.
C O E X I S T E N C E
“COEXIST” the latest command
of the “New World Order” band
live and let live
no need to forgive
for there ain’t no sin
each living their own spin
Coexistence a cold and loveless word
in a cold and loveless earth
for they have declared God dead
and worship themselves instead
mankind in his selfish pride
orchestrates the worldwide divide
but LOVE will return as LOVE
He begs us to throw in the glove
to run away from the dragon
to escape the devil’s paddy wagon
to turn to the Eternal Light
be our heart broken but contrite
He will cleanse us thoroughly
from all sin and iniquity
we will live as brothers and sisters
no need to send us any twisters
no more armies, no more wars
no more enemies at our doors.
be watchful, children, be on guard
keep Me constant in your heart
My return date you don’t know
but Myself suddenly I will show
in a new and peaceful Jerusalem
a new birth in a new Bethlehem
Rita Biesemans November 18 2012
Coexisting is a very good thing for us all to try to do. Your problem with that is typical of what this world is going through.
DARKNESS COVERS THE ABYSS
In a world so full of darkness
hearts transform into harshness
mouths are hurling insults
living the Me, Me, Me cults
A brother killing his brother
a daughter killing her mother
kids who choose rather
than to obey, to kill the father
a world drenched in the occult
and in God refuses to exult
has chosen its own direction
thus asking for Your correction
As in the times of Noah, we are in the days
You spoke of in so many different ways
we live in the end of time as we know it
in which finally Thy Kingdom will be legit
Please Lord, let Your Light
more than ever be so bright
let it shine upon each faithful son
to achieve the victory already won.
Jesus will triumph in the final victory over the devil
Rita Biesemans June 19 2014
This was an email I sent to some of my co-workers on 12/10/2010
Monday 12/10/2010 driving home from work @ McDowell road almost to join the 202 all of the sudden the “check engine light” came on it wasn’t flickering but was steady. I know that’s not ok but didn’t remember which one is worse. So I stopped @ a circle K to ask to use their phone and hoping my son was still @ home (he said that as of now I need to take the cellphone with me; you see I should have listened to Jeanette who is telling me over and over again I should have a cellphone with me )
The woman behind the countertop was so nice. I said sorry for my dirty uniform it has been a “bloody” night. She said that she didn’t work nights anymore after she was shot in her face by a robber. That explained me why how her face looked like it was. Then one of the clients a black man, was paying and took money out of his back pocket and money fell on the floor. I said : “Sir, money fell out of your pocket on the floor. You know my mother used to reprimand my dad because he was keeping money loosely in his back pocket and at times lost some while taking out to pay”. He laughed and started talking about honesty and blesings for being honest and how God blesses when you give to others who have less etc…
I tested him by saying : “ok but how do you explain what happened to us in 2006 : we bought a car for somebody who needed it and couldn’t afford it, we ourselves had to pay it off, and that same week I had my first accident ever in my life 12,000$ repair and within a month the same car same side again this time 15,000 $ both times by underage drunk drivers, illegals from South of the Border who had NO INSURANCE, no papers whatsoever.(and then I even kept quiet about what happened to my husband Samuel (Shmuel) who was visiting his dying parents in Jerusalem. My husband got in a Palestinian attack which damaged his lungs. They called me : your husband is dying he has 2-3 hours to live. We started praying and begging the Lord to save him. He got a double lung transplant is still living and on an enormous amount of medication and the Professor who performed the transplant still does not allow him to travel. And last but not least, they called me “Europe” that my dad was in the hospital diagnosed with cancer and dying. All this happened in one and the same week/month).
The black man says : yes God tests his people just like he tested Job and it’s mostly when greater graces are coming your way that satan starts attacking you………etc
Amen to that Sir, I really felt like “Job”, never revolted though, for I know that God has us in His hands and if He allows these things to happen, He knows why, as we have to be purified just as gold is purified in the fire…. But of course it ain’t easy, far from !!!
The woman behind the countertop was joining us and we felt the Holy Spirit’s Fire, Peace and Love burning in our souls. When the black man left the store, I said :” Sir, you made my day!!!” He answered : “and you made mine” we all three hugged each other as brother and sister in the Lord, they gave me a firm handshake with the promise they would pray for me to arrive safely home without engine breakdown.
At moments like this I praise the Lord and say : you see whether you are white, black, green, yellow, red, it all comes down to LOVE . And I left a very happy person and arrived home safely and so did the car.
Thank you Lord for using that “checking engine” light to experience this. But I tell you “this is only possible in America”.
Love and Peace to all of you and your families.
Rita Biesemans
OK so it’s normal for most of Europeans to hate the U.S. or the President which they do.
I don’t hate Putin, I don’t hate the Russians, I don’t hate any color, nor race, nor whatever.
No, but you have to pray for them that they might turn away from this horrific life style. If God had intended it to be He would have created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve (which in Hebrew means : the mother of all living. Yes I speak, read and write Hebrew)
If God had intended it to be He would have created Adam and Steve instead of Adam and Eve
It is perfectly fine for gays to hate people who say hateful things like that. And I don’t pray for jihadists to reform their ways and find salvation. I just pray for them to go away.
No, it is not hateful to say that two men should not be married. It’s common sense.
If you tell them something that offends them and they hate you for it then what you said is hateful in their estimation which is the only one that counts and you owe them an apology. That, sir, is common sense.
er, if they hate the person who disagrees, they in fact are the haters.
Perhaps they really hate their own situation and don’t like being reminded of that.
You just don’t understand. You don’t want to understand because you are happy with your “God is on our side” narrow minded worldview.
‘hate’ = ‘stop tugging at my conscience’
It’s more like “stop trying to impose your religious taboos on me. My conscience is not bothering me so deal with it”.
I do not fear dog droppings on the sidewalk, yet they disgust me all the same.
So, you are not afraid of homosexuals. They just disgust you?
Not the individuals, just the misguided and unnatural practices.
Homosexual acts disgust you because your attitudes toward sex were ingrained in you at a very young age. If you had not been brainwashed to see these acts as disordered and evil, you would not be so disgusted. The best thing to do is accept gays just the way they are and don’t think about actions that disgust you. There is no reason for you to have to think about them. Abortions disgust me. But since I believe in a woman’s right to control her own life, I just don’t think about how disgusting I find abortion.
That’s 1000% pure unadulterated baloney on a stick. Homosexual acts are disgusting in themselves, regardless of how one is brought up. The problem is that so man of the “enlightened” today have been programmed by the media that sodomy is a good thing, when, in fact, history tells us that it is a disaster.
Homosexual acts are disgusting in themselves, regardless of how one is brought up.
I know people who don’t find homosexual acts disgusting at all. So, to you, they are. You are heterosexual. If you were homosexual, you might have an entirely different opinion. Both opinions should be respected. You might also think these acts are disgusting and hate yourself for doing them. That is the guilt trip that people like you inflict on gays. It is disturbing to say the least. This is what I mean by keeping you honest. The opinions you express about homosexuals should not go uncorrected. They are bigoted and insensitive. It is basically hate speech.
You should see my collection now. I had to buy a second fish tank.
P E R S E C U T I O N
Woe, Woe, Woe
satan is using a hoe
to attack us and destroy
hidden in the horse of Troy
he puts on a “friendly face”
for, “just in case”
we fall into his trap
he can deride us in his lap
Following You, our heavenly Boss,
on the way of the Cross
satan always lies in wait
to entice us with his bait
As he has only a short time left
his behavior becomes very deft
enticing as many as he can get
to lure them in his evil drag-net
But I know, oh my Lord
that I try to strike a chord
to elicit Your intervention
to keep satan in detention
Impatiently waiting for Your return
which we still need to earn
free us from the snares of the devil
push him back to the lowest level
In God we trust
Rita Biesemans November 5 2013
He is a saint in heaven, and therefore his words of truth concerning the mortal sin of sodomy carry infinitely more weight than an anonymous internet poster. Read Jude 1 in the bible, my friend….
Mr. Sullivan, sir. If you want to think that we should let religious fanatics from hundreds of years ago dictate how we should treat homosexuals today, then you go right ahead. I’m not going to fall into that trap. What Saint Bernardine thinks of sodomy is irrelevant to today’s social norms.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, which means what was a sin in the bible is still a sin, unless you can tell me how, when, and where biblical truths became biblical lies…
In this modern society, the word “sin” is generally associated with religious considerations that are not shared by everyone. If an action causes harm to something or someone for no good purpose it is more appropriate to call it a “crime”.
So why do you hang out on a Catholic website which does not agree with your personal philosophy stated above? Why don’t you go hang out on secular humanist websites that would agree with your opinion…
Do you want everyone to agree with your holier than thou opinions. You need someone to keep you honest. Ever read letters to the editor? Do they all concur with the articles they comment on? It’s boring conversing with nonbelievers. There’s not enough controversy.
You can hold an opinion on anything you want but the truth IS black and white. Ray Sullivan is merely giving you the truth and he is spot on. Bill S, if you are professing to be a Catholucyou ought to figure out what we believe.
Thanks Kathleen…Bill, where do you get off calling me holier than thou? Stating the teachings of the Catholic Church with enthusiasm does not make one holier than thou. You don’t even know me personally. I am indeed a sinner, big time, which is why I am Catholic. The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints…
I would say that in most cases where society accepts something, such as gay marriage that the Church condemns, society is usually right. Holier than thou is when you look at, say, a same sex couple, and you refuse to accept them just as they are with no need to change to be more like you.
The Catholic Church is part of society, and we do not accept anything less than marriage being between one man and one woman. Just because there are people out there who hate mothers and who want infants to be adopted by two men does not make that right. How would you have liked to not have had a mother? Why do you think that’s alright for other infants but not for you? Being raised by two men with no mother is a horrible thought to rational people.
It’s not your call, Ray. If a same sex couple decide to marry and start a family, that is nothing to anyone else but them. The Church should have no say as to whether or not that is OK. If people choose to follow the rules of the Church, that’s their choice. If they choose to marry the same sex and ignore the Church’s condemnation, that’s OK.
Their private lives are indeed theirs. The problem comes when they say that I must accept it as being normal and right, or I will lose my job over it. That’s nazi-ism, not Americanism…
You really shouldn’t put yourself in a position where you are telling people who are doing something that is socially acceptable that what they are doing is not normal. It’s not your place to tell other people that.
If that’s true, then why are you telling me that I am wrong? If I can’t tell a homosexual that they are wrong, then you can’t tell me that I am wrong to telling them.
If I can’t tell a homosexual that they are wrong, then you can’t tell me that I am wrong to telling them.
First, it is only the opinion of people like you that homosexuals are wrong. And there is nothing authoritative in opinions by people like you. To think this is the case is just another opinion that also has no validity.
Second, it is very wrong to tell homosexuals they are wrong. You have no authority to say that. You just think you do.
Actually, Ray has a really important point, there, Bill. If it is “wrong” to tell people they are wrong–without authority–which is what you seem to be saying here, then by what authority do you say that Ray is not just wrong, but “very wrong to tell homosexuals that they are wrong”? If (as you’ve said elsewhere on this thread) it is just “up to the individual to decide what is best for him,” then how can you say that it isn’t what is best for Ray, as an individual, to go about the internet posting that “homosexuals are wrong”? By what authority, and what standard of right vs. wrong, do you assert that Ray is “wrong” here?
Telling homosexuals that their actions that are no one else’s business are wrong adversely impacts them and therefore is very wrong to do, considering that they are not negatively impacting anyone other than perhaps themselves depending on the specific situation. Allowing someone to sodomize you could do you harm but it is not for me to tell you that you can’t do it if you want to.
But by what authority do you claim that it is wrong to do something that “adversely impacts” somebody else? (I’m not sure that it really does, by the way, “adversely impact” somebody to tell them that their actions are wrong, especially if their actions actually are harmful to themselves and/or to others, but even if it DOES adversely impact them, what makes THAT a “wrong” thing to do, and who gets to say that that is wrong?)
But by what authority do you claim that it is wrong to do something that “adversely impacts” somebody else?
In general, unless there is justification to do so, everyone pretty much agrees that we should try to avoid adversely impacting other people. Admonishing gays based on your religious beliefs is wrong.
Really? “Everyone pretty much agrees?” That’s your answer? Are you sure they do? Who says? Why should we care what they say?
And I would agree that “admonishing” anyone is generally the wrong tactic to take (especially with adults), but if somebody is doing something that is harmful to them, it is a loving thing to do to help them change that behavior.
So if society supports & legalizes Human Slavery (which it did in this country before a bloody, bloody war) again but the Church condemns it, by your logic, Bill S, we should automatically support society’s pro-slavery tendencies just to go against the Church’s teaching? The Church is oftentimes against society because She is FOR society. The Church passionately loves the world (just as Jesus Her Bridegroom does, John 3:16), but many times she has to against the world only so that she can authentically be for the world. She seeks to correct the world out of total love, just as Jesus did (& continues to do through her). To correct society for society’s own good. Bill S, read Father John Henry Neumann’s “Catholic Matters” book if you want to be challenged (as you so claim is your reason to come to Catholic sites).
but many times she has to be against the world only so that she can authentically be for the world.
Yes. This I agree with what you are saying. Like a parent disciplining a child, sometimes you have to be the heavy. But the Church is wrong to impose its brand of morality on those who for the most part are doing something that the rest of society accepts. Gay marriage is generally accepted in educated societies and taboo in ignorant societies. The Church cannot change with the times and recognize that homosexuality is not the scourge that it makes it out to be.
I’ve been Catholic most of my life, became a hard core atheist and now am trying to accept at least some of what the Church teaches. I have to say, there is not much I really accept.
Don’t wait until funeral day to come to Thee Truth.
SWAN SONG FOR “MOTHER” EARTH
In this world so full of pride
it’s all about ME, set God aside
the pressure is on to collect fancy titles
forcing others to listen to our recitals
Man wants to live in his own perception
twirling in a pool of vile deception
following the voice of the great deceiver
acting as satan’s true believer
How can there be any peace
how can the world’s fire cease
if we see ourselves as the center of the earth
which we cover with blood and dearth
We’ve lost the sense of right and wrong
we can as well sing our swan song
and we dare to call her “MOTHER”
while it’s her we try to smother
“Mother” earth is taking revenge
she shows her face as an avalanche
“how can you do this to us” we ask
“well simple, you didn’t fulfill your task”
In maltreating her, we defy our Creator
He placed us here to be her curator
but even in the Garden we didn’t behave
and chose to become satan’s slave.
The Father begs us to open our eyes
to turn back to Him and be wise
if not, the dice will be cast
die will “the dead hand of the past.”
No greater blind than he who does not want to see
No greater deaf than he who does not want to hear
Rita Biesemans, July 31 2014
THE CHURCH IN GETHSEMANE
The Ship of Peter is torn apart
Martyred in its Holy Teaching
It sinks and sinks, no work of art
The bottom though never reaching
Dissidents are screaming loud
Leaving behind an awful niff
Pretending to be proudly stout
Gearing the Ship into a cliff
Jesus shows His wounded Heart
Smitten with a deadly dart
Peter the Rock in desolation
Deploring severe desecration
Wake up, you Christian Brother
Show now your truthful face
With Mary our Heavenly Mother
We’ll reach that Peaceful Place
In allegiance to the Holy Father
United in prayer and fasting
No victory will claim, but rather
Satan’s defeat be everlasting.
Rita Biesemans, 01-02-2011
“Why was man created on the last day? So that he can be told, when pride possesses him: God created the gnat before thee.”
―The Talmud
Bill, who do you think you are : are you the one to keep someone HONEST ? “
You keep someone honest when you correct them when they try to inflict guilt trips on people for things that are accepted by society but condemned by their religion.
YEH YEH WE ARE IN THE TIMES OF NOAH and I can imagine already how people reacted while Noah was building his ship, I can see them before my eyes : Hey Noah, careful it’s raining, think of your flood God promised to send us, hahahaha, lol.
Well Noah had the last laughter !
That’s because it is a story with a moral. It’s just a story.
that’s what you think, and who says that your way of thinking is correct opposed to mine ? No Bill say whatever you will, I feel for you.
Actually, it’s history.
Actually, it’s (the Flood) history.
You should try to stop believing folk tales that made their way into the Bible. You sound like a fundamentalist who takes the Bible to be literally true. Most rational people, including most Catholics, know that it isn’t.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOING WHAT MEN SAY AND OBEYING GOD
It is the Messiah Yeshua, Jesus Christ, who says OVER AND OVER that we should obey….obey WHAT? Let’s look at other scriptures and see what Jesus wants His followers to “obey”, which means simply to keep His commandments:
Matthew 5:19 : Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments [of the law, clearly seen in the previous two verses], and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:17 : And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life [born again], keep the commandments.
Luke 10:25-28 : And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
John 14:15 : If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21 : He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (See also 1 John 2:3-6)
John 14:24 : He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
Matt 5:17-18 : Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
John 12:46-50 : I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken [G-d’s Word], the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
So, there is a difference between doing what men say, which is “legalism”, and obeying G-d. The scriptures say, “Obedience is better than sacrifice”. It is incumbent upon us to obey His Word, all of it.
It is incumbent upon us to obey His Word, all of it.
Muslims obey the Quran and there is no reason to say that one religion or both religions are not wrong.
What is your basis for this amazing assertion?
I’ve talked to many Muslims and they are as sure that theirs is the one true religion as you are that yours is.
Islam denies Jesus as the incarnated Word of God. The mosque with the Golden Dome in Jerusalem has an inscription in arabic : God has no Son.” One Friday while walking the Way of the Cross : the Via Dolorosa, a few arabs started talking to me and said : Jesus NEVER died on the Cross, the apostles saved Him and put an impostor in His place.” Typical arab behavior and way of thinking. So I prayed for them while continuing the Way of the Cross. My family is very multicultural and it entities us.
Iranian society condemns practicing homosexuals to death.
I hate all things Muslim and I hate Islamic fundamentalists. Don’t use Iran as a legitimate argument against homosexuality.
‘ they try to inflict guilt trips on people for things that are accepted by society ‘
You said this. Sounds like this is your attitude concerning what is acceptable in Iranian society.
Iranian society unfortunately is oppressed by an Islamic government that is trying to enforce sharia law. There is no place for religious fanatics in government regardless of the religion.
THIS IS WHAT the TALMUD SAYS :
“God did not create woman from man’s head, that he should command her, nor from his feet, that she should be his slave, but rather from his side, that she should be near his heart”
It’s amazing how God made man, and so beautiful how he made woman!
Why did God create Woman from Man’s rib, when He could
have simply created her from dust, as He did Man? This
is a story that puts a beautiful touch on the
reasoning:
“When I created the heavens and the earth, I spoke
them into being. When I created man, I formed him from
the dust of the Earth and breathed life into his
nostrils. But you, woman, I fashioned after I breathed
the breath of life into man because your nostrils are
too delicate. I allowed a deep sleep to come over him
so I could patiently and perfectly fashion you. Man
was put to sleep so that he could not interfere with
the creativity. From one bone I fashioned you. I chose
the bone that protects man’s life. I chose the rib,
which protects his heart and lungs and supports him,
as you are meant to do.”
“Around this one bone I shaped you. I modeled you. I
created you perfectly and beautifully. Your
characteristics are as the rib, strong yet delicate
and fragile. You provide protection for the most
delicate organ in man, his heart. His heart is the
center of his being; his lungs hold the breath of
life. The rib cage will allow itself to be broken
before it will allow damage to the heart. Support man
as the rib cage supports the body.”
“You were not taken from his feet, to be under him,
nor were you taken from his head, to be above him. You
were taken from his side, to stand beside him and be
held close to his side. You are my perfect angel. You
are my beautiful little girl. You have grown to be a
splendid woman of excellence, and my eyes fill when I
see the virtue in your heart. Your eyes: don’t change
them. Your lips: how lovely when they part in prayer.
Your nose so perfect in form, your hands so gentle to
touch. I’ve caressed your face in your deepest sleep;
I’ve held your heart close to mine. Of all that lives
and breathes, you are the most like me.”
“Adam walked with me in the cool of the day and yet he
was lonely. He could not see me or touch me. He could
only feel me. So everything I wanted Adam to share and
experience with me, I fashioned in you: my holiness,
my strength, my purity, my love, my protection and
support. You are special because you are the extension
of me.”
“Man represents my image, woman – my emotions.
Together, you represent the totality of God.
So man:
treat woman well. Love her, respect her, for she is
fragile. In hurting her, you hurt Me. What you do to
her, you do to Me. In crushing her, you only damage
your own heart, the heart of your Father and the heart
of her Father.
Woman, support man. In humility, show
him the power of emotion I have given you. In gentle
quietness show your strength. In love, show him that
you are the rib that protects his inner self.”
This is a fundamental misconception that needs to be strenuously corrected. What God calls “sin” is not simply “religious considerations that are not shared by everyone.” If God tells us something is a sin, it is not because God is some kind of cosmic killjoy that just doesn’t want you to do whatever you want to do, it is because that behavior IS going to harm you and/or somebody else; that is WHY it is wrong. Like any loving parent, God doesn’t tell you not to do something (or to do something) for arbitrary reasons; He tells us not to ride our bikes in the busy highway, so to speak, BECAUSE He loves us and wants what’s best for us. To us (children that we are, with our limited perspective and experience), it looks like such a rule is limiting our “fun” and freedom; in reality, that rule is there for our safety and health.
You want to call something that causes harm a “crime.” Fine, then we can use that word, and we can (I think?) agree that actions that cause harm to self or others are “crimes” (sins) and should not be done. Sins (crimes) are not “private matters,” as you say, because “no man is an island;” even if you harm “only” yourself, anyone who loves you (chief among these being God, your Creator, who loves you more than you can begin to imagine) is deeply and painfully affected. Sin (crime) thus harms you and others, certainly “for no good purpose,” and therefore ought to be avoided.
“Hold back those that are stumbling toward the slaughter.” –Proverbs 24:11
What God calls “sin” is not simply “religious considerations that are not shared by everyone.”
But that is exactly what it is. You just can’t accept that not everyone even accepts that God exists, let alone that he calls certain actions such as abortion, contraception, homosexual acts sins. It is a religious belief (one that I do not accept) that certain actions have been identified by God as being “sins”. You look at that belief as an objective truth. Other religions identify other actions, such as eating pork, as sins. Would those also be objective truths, even though you might eat pork, yourself?
Eating pork a sin, so is eating milky stuff together with meat as to the Jewish Kashrut.
I like to tell my ice cream story. When living in Jerusalem, my husband and I (we are both catholic Jews still respecting the Jewish food laws) went for dinner to our favorite restaurant. I was craving for apple pie like they only had at that place, but we were short of money, end of the month. After eating the “meat” I ordered 2 ice creams while my husband went to the bathroom. Back @ the table he said : “I’m not eating any milk product after eating meat, you know you have to wait hours between meat and milk”. I said ok give me yours I’ll eat both. The first scoop I took I got something very sharp and choky in my mouth. Lo and behold it was a piece of glass. My husband said : “you see God punished you for not observing the Law” and he went to the manager to complain. I was embarrassed for that because he didn’t do that on purpose I said. But my husband replied : “what if you would have swallowed it you being pregnant! ” Ok the manager comes to the table apologizing and saying that the dinner was on the house and more even “choose whatever you want”. I said ok : “I take the apple pie please.” He gave us an enormous apple pie the biggest he had to take home. I said to my husband : “tell me who do you think God favored.”:o):o) Riki (Rivka)
I sent this to Deacon John’s website and here’s what he answered :
RomanCatholic Deacon said…
Ha Ha! That’s a great story Rita! God always makes crooked lines straight! And I’m sure it was the Blessed Mother Mary, who baked that apple pie for you!
“you see God punished you for not observing the Law”
That is pretty amazing. I suppose it is good to be able to laugh about these things 😉
Oh dear, forgive me, I utterly failed to make my point. Just completely.
I’ll try again.
1) We’re so upside-down to each other it will be very hard for me to make this
point.
(As:
http://ardentventure.blogspot.com/2013/04/finnish-underwater-ice-fishing.html )
Please bear with me.
2) You seem to be assuming that if others do not accept that God exists, this
means that anything God wills is irrelevant. I certainly do “accept that
not everyone even accepts that God exists,” but that really does not
matter. That’s like saying that, if you don’t believe in gravity, it won’t
apply to you. Natural law exists, whether you like it or not. If you jump off
the roof of a 20-story building, you will fall whether you believe in gravity
or not. If you engage in these behaviors that God has called “sin,”
you WILL harm yourself, whether you believe in God or not, whether you like the
word “sin” or not. God hasn’t just arbitrarily picked some things He
doesn’t want us to do and called them “sins,” He has told us
“don’t do this” BECAUSE those behaviors WILL HARM US.
A loving parent doesn’t tell his child not to ride her bike on the busy
highway because the parent is being arbitrary and trying to lord it over the
child. He tells her this is forbidden
because there is a REAL AND PRESENT DANGER to doing this behavior. Also, EVEN IF THE CHILD HAD NO PARENT tell her
not to do this, that behavior would STILL BE DANGEROUS. The child may not UNDERSTAND the danger—the highway
may look like a great, wonderful, flat, smooth place that would be just PERFECT
for riding a bike—but the danger is real, even though the child doesn’t see it.
These behaviors the Bible calls “sins” (and, by the way, that word “sin”
just means “error” or “mistake” or “missing of the target”) are forbidden
behaviors, not because God or the Church wants to have some kind of power trip,
but because THEY WILL HURT YOU. Whether
you believe that or not; whether you believe in God or not. God has told us not to do them because He
LOVES us and therefore wants what’s best for us. But even if you’ve never heard of God, or don’t
want to believe in God, the danger of engaging in these behaviors is real. Natural laws are laws you cannot break;
instead, they will break you. Sin is not
sin “just because God said so;” God SAID so because these behaviors will harm
you. Riding your bike on a busy highway
isn’t wrong “because daddy said so;” Daddy SAID so because he loves his child
and doesn’t want her hurt; the danger is real, whether the child understands that
or not.
3) You are also falling into the common popular fallacy of assuming that
“all religions are equivalent,” so if any disagree on what is a
“sin,” this makes the idea of “sin” itself invalid.
But if there is Truth, then, if religions disagree on what is a “sin,”
then somebody is mistaken. If there is a religion that says that drinking
water is a sin, that religion is false. If
there is a religion that says it is not a sin to cut the hearts out of children
and offer them to your god, that religion is false.
Regarding your specific example, I am not a theologian, nor a Ph.D. in
comparative religion, so I don’t actually know if the religions that forbid
eating pork (Jews and Muslims, that I know of) call the eating of pork a SIN,
per se, or rather forbid the eating of pork as a DISCIPLINE, which is meant as
a sign of faith. As I understand it, the dietary rules (and other
obligations) of the Jewish faith aren’t presented as “sins” so much as “signs;”
ways to distinguish the Jews and keep them rigorously separate from the other
cultures of Old Testament times. I could
be completely wrong there, though, as I said, I have no great study of
comparative religion under my belt.
Digression,
re: pork. I do know the Christian
explanation for why it is “okay” for Christians (for example) to eat (for
example) pork: Jesus FULFILLED the Old Covenant; we are now under a New Covenant;
and “What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but
what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” (Matthew
15:11); but I myself do not eat pork, because the current practice of raising
animals (ESPECIALLY pigs) for food is a horror.
An obscenity. Please read the
chapter on the “factory farm” raising of pigs in _Dominion: The Power of
Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy_, by Matthew Scully, for a
full description of precisely why no humane human being should eat pork at all
now, at least not industrially-raised pork, ever.
You seem to be assuming that if others do not accept that God exists, this
means that anything God wills is irrelevant. I certainly do “accept that
not everyone even accepts that God exists,” but that really does not
matter.
We all have a sense of what we should and shouldn’t do. To you, what we should do is God’s will. To me, it is just something I know I should do and has nothing to do with a deity.
Worshipping a deity is not something I feel I am expected to do. Using contraceptives or marrying a same sex partner is not something that I feel I shouldn’t do.
You have an idea of what you think is the will of your god. Some of those things that you see as God’s will might just happen to be things that I agree are good to do for their own sake or something I would like to do or would not do. Those who tell us what is or isn’t God’s will are using their own best judgement. Some I agree with. Others I don’t. It is up to the individual what is best for them.
So it’s been quite a while (busy semester!), but if you’re still interested, I have two questions to follow up from this:
1) Where do you think that “sense of what we should and shouldn’t do” comes from? Why do we “all have” that, and how do we know we “should do” what it tells us?
2)
“It is up to the individual what is best for them.” So, if the fellows
from NAMBLA believe it is “best for them” to have sexual relationships
with pre-pubescent boys, is that okay? If my idea of “worshipping a
deity” includes torturing the neighborhood stray animals in my basement,
is that okay? If I find it seriously, seriously constitutes a gigantic
threat to my “right to the pursuit of happiness” to continue to put up
with my neighbor’s extremely annoying–even hazardous–behavior, is it
okay for me to just go ahead and kill him, and thereby free myself from
annoyance and my other neighbors from potential danger–if I have
thought about it carefully and determined that really, really is what’s
“BEST FOR ME”? If your answer to any of these is no, WHY NOT, if the
standard is “up to the individual” to determine?
1) Where do you think that “sense of what we should and shouldn’t do” comes from? Why do we “all have” that, and how do we know we “should do” what it tells us?
First of all, we are taught from childhood a lot of what we know (or think) we should and shouldn’t do and I assume we can put that aside and just address what we naturally sense as right from wrong. We all have that instinct. How did these instincts evolve? How reliable are they? Did they serve our ancestors well and survive natural selection? Have conditions changed so that what we think is right or wrong is no longer necessary for our survival as a species?
Sorry for answering a question with a question. I assume you think that God wrote his precepts on our hearts and to us it is natural law.
Hmm. I accept your apology, but I’m still disappointed that you didn’t even try to answer my question there, because I think it is a crucial one. And actually, my position is not what you assume there, but that’s okay, because I’m still far more interested in what YOU think. You seem to be “putting aside” the idea of being taught by our elders, and rightfully so, because of course there’s the problem of “who taught the first parent,” etc. So, if that isn’t the source (or not the ultimate source), they what is? If in fact “we all have that instinct,” where did it come from? You seem to be inferring that they “evolve,” but what exactly is it that evolved, then? Genes ONLY CODE FOR PROTEINS. So mental events can’t be shaped that way. Therefore, if, in fact we “all have” a “sense of right and wrong,” where did/does it come from, and again, how do we know we “should do” what it tells us?
Therefore, if, in fact we “all have” a “sense of right and wrong,” where did/does it come from, and again, how do we know we “should do” what it tells us?
When people keep asking this question, I am tempted to reply as Thomas Jefferson might have by saying that we are instilled by our Creator with a sense of right and wrong or a Natural Law because I know that is the answer they want to hear.
But Darwin has changed all that by describing how we have evolved from lower species and have kept the traits that help us to continue on as a species and have lost those that don’t. We have become civilized. With civilization come ways to get along with one another. That is why we have so many do’s and don’t’s that make living together possible.
Again, genes only code for proteins, not mental or social events. Or civilizations. There’s just much more going on here than Darwin (bless him!) ever even WANTED to explain. He was looking at how one kind of bird (for example), arriving in the Galapagos, could eventually become several kinds of related bird. I expect he’s absolutely flabbergasted that people want to try to reduce all aspects of all life to Darwin’s process of natural selection–after all, that process can only select from what is ALREADY THERE. Ultimately, we still must answer the question, where did it all come from? And most importantly, WHY?
I have to wonder, really, if perhaps you are “tempted to reply as Thomas Jefferson might have by saying that we are
instilled by our Creator with a sense of right and wrong or a Natural
Law,” not “because I know that is the answer they want to hear,” but in fact because somewhere within you, that is actually the answer you know to be right?
So, if the fellows
from NAMBLA believe it is “best for them” to have sexual relationships
with pre-pubescent boys, is that okay?
That is a question for people who legislate and enforce laws. Because these relationships can negatively impact someone, they are illegal. Whether you or I consider them immoral is irrelevant.
That may be (that what you or I think is irrelevant), but laws are passed against an action because SOMEBODY (or a collection of people) thinks that the action is immoral. People like to say that “you can’t legislate morality,” but in fact that IS what laws do; they put in force certain guidelines (minimal guidelines) about what can be allowed, and they suggest (or require) certain consequences to be levied upon people who cross those boundaries. Whether you and I personally are consulted, laws ARE based upon what human beings think are right and wrong actions. They are therefore based upon SOMEBODY’s morality. And morality is based upon something (derived from worldview, for one thing). So to enter into a discussion about right and wrong, and then just “pass the buck” to the “people who legislate and enforce laws” seems a weak stance to take, especially if you live in a putative democracy and therefore do have (at least theoretically) some say in both who those people are AND what laws get passed. If you take the stance that “everybody gets to decide what’s right and wrong for themselves,” as you seemed to be doing, that leads to some strange and untenable consequences. But now, you seem to be saying something else–not that “we get to decide for ourselves,” but “the people who legislate and enforce laws” get to decide. What if we don’t like their laws? What if we feel their laws are unjust? Is that just “tough turkey,” because now it’s a law, so we just have to deal with it? If so, WHY do we have to accept their idea of what is right or wrong? If not, upon what authority can we protest what we believe to be an unjust law?
Our lawmakers take many factors into account when making laws. Some may be influenced by their own moral values, but for the most part, there are more practical considerations than just morality.
No, my dear Bill, ALL people are influenced by their values, by their worldview. It’s impossible NOT to be influenced by your worldview, by definition. And again, all laws are legislating some notion of something as “right” and “wrong,” therefore some kind of morality. So again, I’ll refer you to my post immediately above:
What if we don’t like their laws? What if we feel their laws are
unjust? Is that just “tough turkey,” because now it’s a law, so we just
have to deal with it? If so, WHY do we have to accept their idea of
what is right or wrong? If not, upon what authority can we protest what
we believe to be an unjust law?
If your answer to any of these is no, WHY NOT, if the
standard is “up to the individual” to determine?
You’re being silly. We can’t unnecessarily negatively impact other beings. Most of your hypotheticals are covered by laws. If something is illegal, whether you or I consider it moral or immoral is irrelevant. I think I just said that.
Wow, because *I* think it’s silly to just fall back on “laws” to decide what is actually right or wrong. Some laws still on the books I expect BOTH you and I would think are quite silly. Some things are wrong even if they are not illegal, and I expect we could find at least a few examples of these that we would both agree on, as well. To say that “if something is illegal, whether you or I consider it moral or immoral is irrelevant” is to just hand over morality to legislation. And what about unjust laws? If a law is wrong, is that irrelevant, since it is a law? Must we let our morality be dictated by what others have passed as laws, or what they haven’t? For laws to be just, there must be some REAL underpinning as to WHY there are laws against something, right? There must be some aspect of actual WRONG involved? What I’m trying to get you to address is where do we get this sense of right or wrong? Where do you get the notion that “we can’t unnecessarily negatively impact other beings?” Why can’t we do that? (If indeed it is true that we “can’t” do that?) What makes that WRONG? (And, for bonus points: who gets to decide what “unnecessarily” means, and what “negatively impact” means, and who or what counts as “other beings”?)
It seems to me that you are one of those people who want to use the fact that we all have a sense of right and wrong as proof of the existence of God. You don’t seem to see it as a result of evolution.
Ray, you’re article is one of a kind, finally somebody who dares to open his mouth. a soldier for the Lord !!! I’ve known lesbian nurses, gay doctors. I treated them as God wants us to treat our fellow brothers and sisters but they knew all to well my standpoint concerning sodomy. May God bless you in abundance. I myself know all too well the persecution one undergoes being a defender of God’s commandments and Jesus as our Savior. One of my former colleague nurses though once said : “Oh but here in America, our Bishops do whatever they want, we don’t listen to Rome” !!! I couldn’t believe what I heard.
Thanks Riki…If you ever read St. Faustina’s Divine Mercy Diary, Jesus tells her to pray for poor sinners, and if she doesn’t, then SHE will be responsible for those lost souls at her judgment. After reading that, I decided to get with the program. Poor sinners are lost, and it’s OUR job to show them the way, whether in season or out of season. If they hate us for it, so be it. If we get them to come around, all the better for us all!
Ray, I read St. Faustina already many years ago and I pray daily the Divine Mercy prayer for this rotten world for each soul which returns to God is one less victory for satan.
Matthew 5:11
Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Douay-Rheims Bible Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:
Poor sinners are lost, and it’s OUR job to show them the way, whether in season or out of season. If they hate us for it, so be it.
What about telling an unmarried couple or a same sex couple that they are living in sin when it is none of your business? It is totally appropriate for them to hate you or fire you or sue you or any other just response.
THE WORLD ON HIS SICKBED
This world is so sick
since it removed the brick
the cornerstone, the pillar
and became the “GOD” killer
The only healing medication
is not a “vaccination”
but a remorseful return
if not, this world will burn
When plagues afflict us
we act like a wuss
We freak out about Ebola
“ try some Granola”
a worse disease is rampant
it comes to us very lambent
it’s the disease of immorality
of lawlessness and bestiality
God, the infinitely Merciful and Just
keep challenging Him, He’ll combust
who do we mortals think we are
a new sparkle shining Dog Star ?
We beg of You, Our Lord and Savior
bring a halt to the world’s barbaric behavior
As Your loyal followers, to You we cry out
help us even if You have to use a knout
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
Rita Biesemans August 6 2014 Feast of THE TRANSFIGURATION
I have no problem telling someone that shacking up is a sin either….
I have no problem telling someone that shacking up is a sin either….
You have absolutely no authority telling anyone what is or isn’t a sin. I don’t know you but I bet that you make a living spouting Catholic teachings that nonbelievers know are bs.
“You have absolutely no authority telling anyone what is or isn’t a sin” What do you think you’re doing then Bill, you are spitting out one threat after another. Who gives you the AUTHORITY to react like that. It’s only common sense that man and woman go together, not man/man, woman/woman. Bill you can do and say whatever you will (want), but sooner or later you will pay the “Bill”. I feel for you, but I’m used to people using your style of language, I’ve seen and heard enough in my life already.
It’s only common sense that man and woman go together, not man/man, woman/woman.
So. Not only do people like you want to be the arbiters of what is a sin and what is not and what other people should and shouldn’t do, you also want to tell people like me what is or isn’t common sense. To me, it is common sense to let people live their lives according to their own values as long as those values do not adversely impact me. What could be more common sense than that?
“non”sense
And just where does Jesus admonish gays? The Bible does in Levictus, which deals with bizarre prohibitions, in Paul who was a consummate homphobe and other misinterpreted references in Onan and Sodom…none of which refer to homosexuality. If it was a relevant issue, Christ would have addressed it.
Read the Word of GOD (who is Jesus), Jude Chapter 1…
JESUS IS GOD, GOD IS LOVE
LOVE has been everything but loved
In this world He persistently is being shoved
His very own creatures brush Him aside
so do many apostles of His Bride
He is being betrayed over and over
being scourged even by the Herd’s drover
Gethsemane’s blood sweating anxiety
does not even bring us back to piety
My Jesus, You suffered for us, for me
the most terrible, bitterest agony
to reopen the Gate of Your Kingdom
which for us still is an unearned income
My children, offer Me all your worries
calm down, get rid of all your flurries
leave the world for what he’s worth
give your soul a new virgin birth
Come sit with Me in the Silence of My Home
let go, escape from this world’s pressure dome
know that I am the most Lonely Daddy
I wait for you My children, are you ready ?
Father, may Thy Kingdom come SOON
on earth as it is in Heaven
Rita Biesemans, August 2 2014
As God, Jesus created humans as man and woman – He probably gave us credit for being bright enough to figure out why.
“Biblical truths” is an oxymoron. For you to think that homosexuality is wrong because that’s what the Bible says is a real problem for those who want the Church to embrace all people. It turns homosexuals into second class citizens and parishioners.
THE PRESENT SODOM AND GOMORRAH
Though I am the Light
you walk in the darkness
Though I am the Might
you follow the barkless
Though I am the Truth
you prefer the lier’s booth
Though I am the Way
you say it’s ok to be gay
Though I am the Life
you choose eternal death
Where weeping and gnashing is rife
and for sure there won’t be any Meth
Oh you stubborn generation
stop this horrific aberration
You keep flirting with the seducer
so don’t blame Me, blame the abuser
Though I am the utter Merciful
I’m also the eternal Just
Your behavior is extremely hurtful
My patience you finally bust.
Wake up and smell the coffee or it will be too late.
Lord, please, hasten Your Coming
Rita Biesemans, May 13 2014
NICE!
If you choose to admonish homosexuals, I would start at the rectory doors.Statistical analysis tell us clearly that 30-60% of RC clergy are gay, especially newer initiates. Ir also tells us that 50% of clerics are not chaste or celibate…the house of cards falls at the rectory door. I would happy to give you references to studies by Fr, Couzzins, Skipe, Father Doyle, a Canon lawyer, etc. Shoot your arrows of admonishment at the rectory doors and seminaries.
Celibate homosexuals who are trying to overcome their human nature is one thing. Homosexuals who say that homosexuality is normal and right and good and they will do whatever they please when they please is an entirely different thing. I can’t admonish anyone if I don’t know what they are doing privately.
You miss my point deliberately: Priests and celibacy…50% are not celibate at any point in time; 30 – 60 % are gay, That gives you a 50% chance of being able to admonish any rector,,,please refer to: as you cannot find a better reference than Richard Sipe:
http://www.awrsipe.com/Articles/Celibacy_is_a_Problem.html
Are you a peeper?
But only 2% of priests from 1950 through 2002 were ever convicted of homosexual attacks on altar boys, which means that 98% of priests during that time were clean as a whistle, whether they were homosexual or not. Source: The John Jay institute.
But only 2% of priests from 1950 through 2002 were ever convicted of homosexual attacks on altar boys, which means that 98% of priests during that time were clean as a whistle,
There are three categories 1 those who abused and were convicted 2 those who abused and got away with it and 3 those who you as you say were “clean as a whistle”. Wouldn’t you agree that your saying that 98% of priests were clean as a whistle is a massive distortion of what really went on?
Ray, a simple conflated piece of data and a flagrantly misleading conclusion:
(1) The John Jay report did indicate that 2% of priests were CONVICTED of abuse, not just altar boys but children under the age of consent
(2) Many, many more were accused of abuse and data released by the Archdiocese of Boston indicates that 10% were accused of abusing children.
(3) Many priests were indicted by grand juries, ie. Bishop Thomas Dupree of Springfield but could not be prosecuted because of the statute of limitations expired…this is common enough; or fled the jurisdictions like Marcel Marciel the Founder of the Legionnaires of Christ (abused seminarians, had several wives and children, money galore and a drug habit)
(4) The data http://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm
(5) The John Jay Report was a collection of data provided by dioceses which was radically under-reported
(6) The John Jay Report did not include data from religious organizations of priests, brothers and nuns unaffiliated with any diocese, also the personal prelatures….those convictions, accusations, cases not prosecuted because
of statues of limitations or flight from extradiction. There are thousand more cases because religious orders are notoriously private.
(7) True statistics: bishop-accountability.org
(8) The Jay Report does not include sexual antics of clergy involved in relationships with either men or women of the age of consent.
(9) Data is that 50% of clerics are not chaste at any given point in time:
http://www.virtueonline.org/only-half-catholic-priests-are-celibate-mike-mcmanus
(10) So if you are true to your admonishing the sinner narrative…you would be right at over 50% of rectory doors in a random visitation.
Truth, no matter how heinous, is not something we can evade by manipulating data.
I think you meant ‘The John Jay Report’.
Of course, this leads to much question-begging, considering that the report relied on dioceses reporting the offences, which in turn relies on people coming forth about sexual abuse in the first place. The odds that the reporting rates of either being 100% are low.
In addition to assuming that the Jay Report reflects all the abuses, this assumes that only the accused were aware of the abuse, and that nobody else new of, or was otherwise responsible for stopping these abuses. I think as serious adults, we both know this was not the case, and that your conclusion is false.
I can’t admonish anyone if I don’t know what they are doing privately.
What makes you think you should be admonishing anyone if you do know what they are doing privately?
We share the same planet.
asmondius : are you trying to use the name ASMODEUS= the prince of demons
ASMODEUS, or ASHMEDAI [ASHMADAI](‘Aσμοδαὶος, ):ASMODEUS :NAME OF THE PRINCE OF DEMONS
In the Book of Tobit.
In Testament of Solomon.
Haggadic Legend.
Benaiah Captures Ashmedai.
Ashmedai’s Journey to Solomon.
Elements of the Ashmedai-Solomon Legend.
Asmodeus, Ashmedai, and Æshma.
Ashmedai and Shamdon.
Ashmedai in Later Sources.
ASMODEUS :NAME OF THE PRINCE OF DEMONS
The spelling appears to be completely different from where I sit.
ok but what does the name “asmondius” represent ?
It is an old name, once common in certain parts of the world. It represents no more than ‘Jane’.
in which part of the world please ? I love languages (used to be a translator-iinterpreter) and would love to know to which language this name belongs. Please explain me, thanx.
asmondius (don’t know if you’re a male or a female) I looked up the name asmondius on yahoo and lo and behold that was frightening : it was 3 times a pornographic site with horrific pictures and crimps advertising for girl s.. slaves ! If I were you I would change this name or word : “asmomdius” !!!!!!!!! It doesn’t look good.
Asmondius : I’ve been trying to find the name “Asmondius” it is nowhere to be found. I give up, I think 1 year of searching and investigating tells me that this name is a fake to replace Asmodeus who is also the ” MARRIAGE BREAKER-DEMON”
Names, ESPECIALLY old names, have meanings. “Jane” is an English form of the French “Jehanne,” which is a feminine form of the old Hebrew name “John,” which means “God is gracious” or “God gives”–the usual understanding of the meaning of the name is the recognition that the child is a “gift of God.”
You should admonish people who do things in private that you think your god does not approve of because you share the same planet with them? Talk about intolerance! You’ve taken it to a whole new level.
‘Doing things in private’ brought STD’s and AIDS into the society. Robin Williams sadly killed himself ‘in private’, but did his action not have a large affect upon the rest of us?
So. Are you saying that people like you should have a say in what goes on in people’s bedrooms?
Bill, you are very intolerant of my beliefs.
Yes. I find your intolerance to be intolerable. It is very self righteous.
‘ It also tells us ..’
Your imagination?
Homosexuals =/= those who commit homosexual acts. Try to keep up…
Try to draw a simple Venn diagram using the above verified data…..
Though I am the Way
you say it’s ok to be gay
Seriously???
WHO WILL CRY FOR YOU, AMERICA ?
I, will cry you a river
And much much more
My dear dear America,
Once so beautiful !
You sold your soul
To a bunch of mercenaries
Which entered your sheep-fold
As wolves and goats
You sold your skin
To the highest bidder
You resemble a harlot
The new BABYLON
Eating and drinking
With the rich of this world
Prostituting yourself
For money and power
And became a den
Of thieves and murderers
You forgot all about
The One Who blessed
You so abundantly
Biting the Hand of the Blesser
Embarrassed to mention His Name !
Did He not teach you
To be wise as a serpent
And harmless as a dove
Why then do you behave
As a silly goose ??
He invited you to His dinner Table
He so diligently prepared
But, you made light of it
And went your worldly, haughty ways
One to his farm,
Another to his business.
But as the Father of Fathers
He waits for your return
The return of His prodigal daughter
WAKE UP, AMERICA !!!
Humble your pride
And follow the Way, the Life and the Truth !!!
Or, I SHALL cry you a river
A river of bloody tears
And much much more !!!
Rita Biesemans 02/17/2003
DO YOU THINK I’M JOKING ???
No. I know you are serious but I can still laugh at you even if you are serious.
SO CAN I
but I feel for you, something must have happened in your life that you became a person so full of hate. I know what being hated is. I lived and worked in Israel several years, I’m a catholic Jew so is my husband and we were persecuted by Jews and Catholics and I don’t say by THE Jews and by THE Catholics but by people like you who think it’s OK to hate. I’ll pray for you even if you don’t want me to. Shalom.
Yeah. I don’t hate you. But I do hate people who think what they learn from their religion is from God and try to tell people they are disobeying God just because that is what their religion teaches them.
THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE
If you follow the Master
the world will reject you
as it rejects the Pastor
with a lot of ballyhoo
The disciple is NOT above the Master
nor the servant above his Lord
the world is heading for a disaster
the Creator is ready to have it restored
The Queen of Heaven comes to warn
us poor children of naughty Eve
if we don’t listen, we’ll surely mourn
in an “eternity” full of grief
Each one of us is FREE TO DECIDE
whether to follow God or a worldly path
whether to be humble or full of pride
whether to be full of Love or full of wrath
The Righteous Judge keeps patiently
inviting His children to choose wisely
but most of us refuse blatantly
to follow His Commandments very precisely
He who will not hear, will feel .
Rita Biesemans, December 12 2013 Feast Day of Our lady of Guadalupe
Or because it’s the right thing to do to warn someone when they are about to go over a cliff and wind up in hell.
Wow! People like you are exactly why so many people in educated cultures want nothing to do with Catholicism. It is the ignorant cultures that are receptive to your worldview.
wow “lucky you” be thankful you belong to the “educated” all-knowing smarty pants in this world. :o(
“What good does it to man to gain and possess all the knowledge of the world when he is loosing his soul “
All you have to do is look at how the people in Uganda were misled by Christians who influenced them to hate gays and make draconian anti-gay laws. Educated people would ignore a bunch of religious fanatical fundamentalist preachers like them.
“educated” people have their own fundamentalist opinions : euthanasia, abortion, get rid of the less fortunate, reduce the world population etc.. and don’t tell me that that doesn’t exist . I have seen the most horrific things happening ordered by the freemason -atheist- God hating elite in this world. I stood professionally in their midst, it’s not a “hear say”
I have seen the most horrific things happening ordered by the freemason -atheist- God hating elite in this world.
It is true that, overall, devout Catholics tend to be good God fearing people. They just have some weird ideas that make it hard for me to continue to be one. They seem obsessed about regulating the behavior of others, even those who don’t even share their religious beliefs. Total acceptance of all Church teachings is most definitely not on the table for me. Still, overall, the world is a better place thanks to Catholicism.
OBSESSION is NOT of God. I ain’t regulating the behavior of NO ONE . I am NOT a religious zealot, it’s only when “they ask” what I think of this or this then I speak out but always amicable never vindictive. The rest I leave in God’s hands only God sees and knows the deepest secrets of our soul and only He will have the last verdict. GOD is LOVE.
Religious people, no matter how devout they are, never see themselves as zealots. I think, to an ateist, all religious people are religious zealots. Atheists have their own zealots. All things in moderation.
If I were a zealot I would know and see myself as a zealot, I’m not a saint, but I’ve never acted in a hostile way -and never will- towards non-believers which are still different than atheists (you don’t catch flies with vinegar-and now I see you already thinking of a reaction to this particular line :o)-,I worked with very aggressive Atheists : professors, doctors, managers, the ones thinking they belong to the elite of this world and look down upon the ones not following their thoughts and behaviors. But I don’t care because deeds say a million times more than words. Have a nice day Bill .
You’re a good egg, Riki. Just go easy on LGBTs.
I had 1 lesbian nurse colleague , 1 whose daughter is a lesbian, a doctor anesthesist who was gay ,I even didn’t know that. When he came he always hugged me and said : you are my favorite nurse. Behind his back one of the nurses once said:”don’t you know he’s gay?” Well so what, I’m not here to judge him, he’s an excellent doctor, always well caring for his patients and to us nurses never rude ! So what do you say about the docs here who behind their spouses
backs have affairs with some of our nurses. So keep your nurses mouths shut. I condone the sinner not the sin. We are all sinners and what might be a deadly sin for me in God’s eyes, might as well be a lesser sin for you in God’s eyes. He knows our most inner and the burdens in our lives, so let Him judge I can only pray and offer my daily struggles without revolting. Shalom UBracha (peace and blessing) to you
So you are pretty tolerant to gays. That’s good. I have a gay son and I love him and accept him just the way he is.
LGBT tourism Wikipedia[edit]
Main article: LGBT tourism
One meaning of the word lesbian derives from the poems of Sappho, who was born in Lesbos and who wrote with powerful emotional content directed toward other women. Due to this association, Lesbos and especially the town of Eresos, her birthplace, are visited frequently by lesbian tourists.[3] In 2008, a group of Lesbos islanders lost a court case against the Gay and Lesbian community of Greece. The Lesbos islander group had requested a legal injunction to ban groups from using the word “lesbian” in their names, which the petitioners claim violated their human rights as it is “insulting” and disgraces them around the world.
Λέσβος
Lésvos
Definitions of lesbos
noun
a Greek island in the eastern Aegean Sea, off the coast of northwestern Turkey. Its artistic golden age of the late 7th and early 6th centuries bc produced the poets Alcaeus and Sappho.
noun
a lesbian.
OK. That makes more sense.
Joseph STALIN : HOW TO DESTROY AMERICA :
“America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.”
History taught us : mighty empires collapsed because of what Stalin said and the immorality always brought sexual disorientation with it.
The Greeks Island Lesbos was the island only for women who did things with women (from there the word Lesbians, but I presume you know this) NO MEN allowed to access. When a man tried to come onto the island, they killed him. One day there’s a Russian man who tries to get on the island but the women said NO we’ll kill you ! He said : “OK but I have one request : I want to be killed by the ugliest amongst you”. Oops rebellion broke loose amongst the women, they finally let him go. This joke was told by a Russian female travel guide while we were visiting places in Moscow, Leningrad (St Petersburg now again) et al.
BTW : Typical behavior for women on that island Lesbos :o) :o)
I Googled Lesbos and I didn’t see anything about what you said. I think you are pulling my leg.
Bill, I’m not pulling your leg not even both of them. I studied 6 years Greek-Latin Humanities and that’s why I know it.
Found it.
Where did the word lesbian come from?
Off the coast of Greece is a mythical island called Lesbos where women ruled and lived. These women were called Lesbians. Over time the name was become the label for women who seek intimate relationships with other women.
Bill, I’m allergic to eggs :o(
Does that mean you can’t get a flu shot. They usually ask if you are allergic to eggs.
they should ask but they didn’t. I got once a flu shot didn’t feel well afterwards. I heard long time after when we had to explain patients about the flu shot. For us nurses it was : “take it or loose your job”
Your being a nurse makes you a better person than I could ever be. They are saints.
Nursing changed a lot it has become a “career’ for us nurses belonging to “another generation than the millennium one” becoming a nurse was a calling !
CALLED TO BE A NURSE
When You called me to be a nurse
I pretended to be deaf, not to hear
but Your call was very terse
I felt You more than ever near
I loved my job as a translator
I tried with all my might to escape
the deal with My celestial Debater
looking for the smallest tiniest gape
I barely ate, I barely slept
I refused to watch “Dr. Kildare”
for his nurse on me her eyes she kept
I had to run from her inviting stare
I like to serve but if at all
then as a flight attendant
this dragged my parents into a brawl
in which I acted as the defendant
Then came the day that I woke up
hearing Your inviting Voice
offering me to share Your loving Cup
how could I refuse this choice
You asked me to prepare
myself for “my task for later”
to get ready for the nursing care
and in Your Name to cater.
I accepted without restriction
and went swift to nursing school
my belief and strong conviction
became my most powerful tool
You’ve always been with me at the bedside
even patients testified of your omnipresence
some of them hot tears they cried
thankful to receive so much pleasance
but Lord wherever You are
there Your opponent prowls
as the magnificent dog star
enticing me to throw in the towels
I may well have lost a battle
but You promised me the victory
he will stop his tail rattle
when I read him his valedictory
I trust in You, my Savior and Provider. Rita Biesemans, 01/09/2014
It is great to have a calling. When I was working for large engineering company, I started a company softball team. I would send an email to the whole company the day after a game reporting on the events. People would tell me that I missed my calling and that I should have become a sports writer. My job was definitely a career and not a calling.
Nurses are overworked and underpaid. If you don’t enjoy the work, it must seem like hell.
They just posted an article on “MEDSCAPE” a website for doctors and nurses. 600 nurses already wrote a comment and lo and behold it’s all about the same : electronic charting sucks, it takes away 3/4 of the time of patient care, 3/4 of the time at the bedside of the patient. Each of them writes : It’s all about making money for the hospitals, managers don’t understand the nurses jobs, they are far from knowing what being a nurse is. It’s nowadays all about WHO you know rather then WHAT you know in Healthcare.’ After reading all this I all of the sudden didn’t feel alone anymore. So nurses all over the country are feeling the same, it is said that “nurses eat their own young”. The new generation though has been trained completely different, they don’t care about Electronic Medical Records, they are even constantly on their IPhones even though it’s not allowed. Doctors loudly complain : those nurses are constantly on the computers ! Well this is what it is now, the world has changed enormously but not for the better. In the Early 80’s I organized prenatal classes for expecting mothers and dads, my coworkers were enthused and helped. We didn’t ask to be paid for this. The manager said there was no money to pay us for that : I answered : ” Did I ask you for money, try us out and if it is a success and you want to do something, go ahead.”.. It was a great success, we tripled our amounts of deliveries in 1 year.
Nowadays people have to pay for these classes item by item ,all over the country.
It’s all about making money for the hospitals, managers don’t understand the nurses jobs, they are far from knowing what being a nurse is.
They ought to know. They’re the ones who have to deal with it every day.
Give it up Bill S, go to troll somewhere else. When you’re done trolling, come back then, sir.
I’m not trolling. I am sticking up for people who are maligned by people who all agree with one another that homosexuality is this awful terrible scourge on society when it isn’t that way at all. Just trying to keep people honest and fight bigotry.
AMEN!!
Thank you.
No, you’re trolling. When you say things that aren’t true (example: a belief that homosexual acts are sinful = homophobia) for the sole purpose of riling people up, that is trolling.
It is homophobia as the term is commonly used not only for the fear of homosexuals but also for the prejudice against homosexuality that has nothing to do with fear. Yes, technically a phobia is an irrational fear such as is used in “islamophobia”. But use of the word “homophobia” has come to have less about fear and more about bigotry, in which case the Catholic Church (and St. Paul) could be described as being homophobic.
And you, in turn, could be described as being Theophobic or Cathophobic.
I also could be thought of as a Catholic wannabe because, as much as I have problems with the overall judgmentalism of Catholics, I honestly think it is the best religion, second only to no religion. Compared to other religions (especially Islam), Catholicism does way more good for the world.
Bill S, you’re not sticking up for anybody, you’re just trolling. You’re doing the LGTB community a great disservice. Shame on you!
That doesn’t make any sense. The whole concept of people calling themselves the Church Militant doesn’t make any sense. Militant religious fanatics are the problem with this world, whatever their religion.
Romans 1:23-32King James Version (KJV) Saint Paul ( 26 – 27 – 29 )
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
So homosexuality comes as a result of not worshipping God?
The other is the self-absorbed promethean neopelagianism of those who ultimately trust only in their own powers and feel superior to others because they observe certain rules or remain intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style from the past. A supposed soundness of doctrine or discipline leads instead to a narcissistic and authoritarian elitism, whereby instead of evangelizing, one analyzes and classifies others, and instead of opening the door to grace, one exhausts his or her energies in inspecting and verifying. In neither case is one really concerned about Jesus Christ or others. These are manifestations of an anthropocentric immanentism. It is impossible to think that a genuine evangelizing thrust could emerge from these adulterated forms of Christianity. (#94)” Gaudium Evangelii, P. Francis
Thank goodness no one on Catholicstand.com is like that….
‘….drags great thoughts to petty ones…’